Mormon Church To US Supreme Court: Ban Gay Marriage

[Serenity7855]

Once again: The word "homosexual" isn't found in the Greek text. Period. It's an interpretation that's wholly unfounded exegetically.

So what. We have what God wants us to have. Each country has its own version that God has inspired through his Holy Ghost. You are moving goal posts

 

[Serenity7855]

I dunno. You brought it up. You delineate them. Your attempt at provocation is pathetic. I'm not gay -- and wouldn't be bothered if I were.

You said: "The "digs" are not needless, for your statements constitute complicity in the prevailing institutional violence, and they must be resisted." A little dramatic, I know, never-the-less your words.

 

[Serenity7855]

An observation. You're having blocked him does not mean that the rest of us cannot enjoy and benefit from his posts.

Of course not

 

[sojourner]

I will stick with what God says and he says that it is an abomination.

God doesn't say it; a human being said it.

 

[sojourner]

So what. We have what God wants us to have. Each country has its own version that God has inspired through his Holy Ghost. You are moving goal posts

No, I'm calling attention to the fact that "homosexual" is a poor and irresponsible translation of the Greek.

 

[sojourner]

You said: "The "digs" are not needless, for your statements constitute complicity in the prevailing institutional violence, and they must be resisted." A little dramatic, I know, never-the-less your words.

Yes. Which rebuttals are you referring to?

 

[sojourner]

Of course not

So what's your problem with my post, then, if you agree with it?

 

[sojourner]

The conflict between science and Scripture comes when science steps outside the realm of that which is observable and reproducible and speculates on origins, values, and destinies. Science then becomes a religious viewpoint.

Serenity, your signature is true, but is only half the story. The other half is that the conflict also comes when religion steps outside the realm of the mythological, and asserts that unobservable and irreproducible beliefs are facts. Religion then becomes a sham.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I will stick with what God says and he says that it is an abomination.

No, he doesn't. You cannot find one out of the 31, 102 verses that condemn it.

As Jesus said, "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

I have a hard time believing Paul was one of these servants, since in many ways he was the opposite of Jesus. Paul was very OT. Jesus was very un-OT.

For some of the more astute of us it doesn't always need spelling out word for word to know what it is saying. You are being silly by questioning something that most people accept

Most people don't accept it. From what I have read, it's not at all an unusual question because many Christian leaders, bloggers, scholars, and other such are asked such things, and they generally tend to say it's ok if it's within the confines of marriage.

 

[sojourner]

Serenity said: "As Jesus said, 'whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.'"

The pope is a servant of Jesus. Therefore, whatever the pope says, Jesus says. Right?

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity said: "As Jesus said, 'whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.'"

The pope is a servant of Jesus. Therefore, whatever the pope says, Jesus says. Right?

Now you are not being serious so we will leave it right there.

 

[sojourner]

Now you are not being serious so we will leave it right there.

I'm dead serious. If you're going to make a ridiculous statement saying that Paul saying something is the same as Jesus saying it (which is disingenuous as it is ridiculous), based on the fact that Paul is a servant of Jesus, then the same courtesy must be extended to every servant of Jesus. Jesus is Jesus and Paul is Paul. It's ok -- just admit that you were mistaken. But don't compound the mistake by trying to cover your track with poorly-executed theological gymnastics.

 

[Serenity7855]

I'm dead serious. If you're going to make a ridiculous statement saying that Paul saying something is the same as Jesus saying it (which is disingenuous as it is ridiculous), based on the fact that Paul is a servant of Jesus, then the same courtesy must be extended to every servant of Jesus. Jesus is Jesus and Paul is Paul. It's ok -- just admit that you were mistaken. But don't compound the mistake by trying to cover your track with poorly-executed theological gymnastics.

What you determine to be ridiculous is going to be good sense to a Christian, so I will allow that insult to wash over my head. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. The bible was given to us to help us live a lifestyle that will return us to God, that is, by striving to live by it's commandments, concepts and principles we will gain eternal life. Christianity is a lifestyle and Jesus Christ is the author of those teachings. There is nothing written anywhere that says "but the only stuff with any authority is the direct writings of the Savior." The entire bible is what teaches and guides us not just words that Jesus spoke, hence when it be Jesus that says it, or one of his servants, it is the same. The pure fact that it is contained within that Holy Canon is authority to confirm that Homosexuality is a heinous abominable sin, punishable by death under the Mosaic law, and an abomination in the eyes of God. To a Christian the principle is set in stone with the only person able to change it being Jesus Christ himself, and not a relatively hand full of activists trying to dupe the human race with duplicitous. The Pope is not a authorized servant of God. None of them remain here. I make no mistake. This has been indoctrinated on my heart for over forty years. I have not just made it up today. It is, and always has been, a Gospel Principle and commandment of Gods.

Now, i believe that you are a Christian agitator, like most atheists here are, because I recognize the blatant ad hominem that you cannot help making. If you want to debate then I will debate, however, I am not going to stand here and be a target of your denigrating, deprecatory and derisive insults. I am not going to respond to your base digs anymore. If that draws the debate to a halt then so be it.

Oh, I have notice that you are committing the debating cardinal sin of Gish Gallop. I am fully aware of it so if I do not get an opportunity to answer any of your post it is because of your Gish Gallop

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity said: "As Jesus said, 'whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.'"

The pope is a servant of Jesus. Therefore, whatever the pope says, Jesus says. Right?

Wrong

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wrong

Actually, most Christians throughout the entire history of Christianity does view the Pope as an servant and representative of God.

 

[Serenity7855]

Actually, most Christians throughout the entire history of Christianity does view the Pope as an servant and representative of God.

Argumentum ad populum logical fallacy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

Examples
This fallacy is sometimes committed while trying to convince a person that a widely popular thought is true or that they're wrong because all the rest do otherwise.

• Billions believe in my religious belief.
• Nine out of ten of my constituents oppose the bill, therefore it is a bad idea.
• Fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong.
• Everyone's doing it.
• In a court of law, the jury vote by majority; therefore they will always make the correct decision.
• Many people buy extended warranties, therefore it is wise to buy them.
• Millions of people agree with my viewpoint, therefore it must be right.
• The majority of this country voted for this President, therefore this president must be the right choice.
• My family or tribe holds this as a truth, and everyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
• No one else has ever complained about this.

 

[JoStories]

Oh my, are you putting me on the same level as Jesus Christ because I fall far short of his example. I STRIVE to follow the teaching of Jesus but I rarely attain it. You too are making this personal. Either stick to the topic of debate, which is not me, or expect no answer to your vindictive post. You are being *****y by targeting the player instead of the ball. You are too angry to be debating here.

I am sticking to the topic, as you put this here. How do you see that I am not? I have responded to your remarks about gays and how we cannot perpetuate life or procreate, and how you see us as less than normal, etc. Perhaps you are upset over so many of us standing in opposition to the ideas you put forth. I cannot know that but what I do know is that I have been addressing the topic all along.

 

[JoStories]

No you are not curious, you are angry. Even that you do not know the definition of a gay lifestyle shows your complete ignorance to this topic. You are judging the entire gay community by yourself.

All I did was speak of the love that myself and my partner enjoyed while she was still alive. I fail to see how that is angry sir. If you feel I am 'ignorant of a gay lifesyle' please, expain what that is. I would be hard pressed to understand how someone sitting outsided of this lifestyle would have any intimate knowledge of what it is to be gay. Please, enlighten me.

 

[JoStories]

People tend to get angry when faced with despicable bigotry. You must get the same reaction from a lot of people.

Demon, I am not angry. Do you feel my posts have been angry? I would love to know what I am saying that exhibits that.

 

[JoStories]

I you hypocrite. You have just said that I do not know you yet you claim here to know me sufficiently to know how I live my life.

You obviously do not know Christ and what his mission was. Christ would never show acceptance to sin, that is why he made it clear, in the New Testament, that sexual perversions were unacceptable.

?? Where did I intimate that I know you personally? I merely said that one comment you made does not seem to adhere to the teachings of The Christ. Furthermore, no where in the NT does Christ say one thing about gays or homosexual activity. Paul does but then Paul never knew Christ. And lastly, you will know what I bolded and underlined in your post. That is called a Freudian slip.