More than 100 students baptized without parents’ permission at North Carolina school

[Shadow Wolf]

"All that does is affirm the suspicions they baptized some kids twice"

Which doesn't mean anything. So why get twisted about it?

It raises questions because it's a redundancy and not normally or usually done, so why was it done?

 

[We Never Know]

It raises questions because it's a redundancy and not normally or usually done, so why was it done?

Evidently the kids stepped up. Since twice makes no difference, there is no harm no foul right?
Its just something for people to ***** about.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Evidently the kids stepped up. Since twice makes no difference, there is no harm no foul right?
Its just something for people to ***** about.

It's a legit question (actually many of them) as to why they gave some of them a second Baptism. One of the more obvious ones being did they really explain baptism to the kids?

 

[We Never Know]

It's a legit question (actually many of them) as to why they gave some of them a second Baptism. One of the more obvious ones being did they really explain baptism to the kids?

Or... Maybe the kids stepped up and didn't tell anyone they had already been baptized.
Once or twice makes no difference so what's the harm you are complaining about?

 

[leroy]

You don't sound very sure. And you are likely wrong as none admit to any special abilities.

What would make believers have special sensory abilities that allowed them special knowledge?

Perhaps the special ability of making an honest effort in trying to understand and objectivley analice some of the arguments for the existence of God (fine tuning argument, moral argument, Kalam Cosmological argument etc...)



.

You keep saying "angry atheists" when none are showing any anger.

Your rejection towards baptism and label it as child abuse seem to show that you are angry at God.

A "normal " atheist would be indiferent about baptism. in the same way you would be indiferent if your son joins the "unicorn club "

 

[leroy]

So would you be ok if the Satanic Temple undid them? What if they were being inducted into Catholicism and had their first Communion with it? What if it was Islam? Hindu?
Amd all you're achieving with you're "atheists shouldn't mind" is revealing your own lack of regard for the desires and wishes of others.
And we don't know how consensual this was. Baptizing kids a second time raises many questions, amd peer pressure is a thing, nor can it truly be consensual if they were scared into by with threats if eternal damnation.

Well as a Christian I do belive in Satan, so under my view, inviting someone to worship Satan would be dangerous and wrong.

peer pressure is a thing, nor can it truly be consensual if they were scared into by with threats if eternal damnation

Granted, but in that cases "threads" should be your problem, not the baptidm itself

 

[metis]

Since its been discussed on a few threads to what choices/decisions children should be able to make for themselves,,, should they be able to make this decision?

"FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (WGHP) — A North Carolina school apologized after baptizing more than 100 children without their parent’s permission, according to the Fayetteville Observer.

Northwood Temple Academy, a private Christian school in Fayetteville, posted on Facebook on Thursday, “I feel it in my bones, You’re about to move! Today we had over 100 middle and high school students spontaneously declare their faith and get baptized today. We will have more pictures of these powerful moments posted over the next couple of days!”

That morning, three students had their scheduled baptisms at the school as part of Spiritual Emphasis Week. The offer was then extended to other students who had not been scheduled. More than 100 students in total were baptized.

Renee McLamb, the head of the school, sent families a letter to explain.

“The Spirit of the Lord moved and the invitation to accept the Lord and be baptized was given and the students just began to respond to the presence of the Lord,” McLamb said in the letter, which was obtained by the Observer.

The school says it typically notifies and invites parents to be present for any baptisms that happen on campus, and “it was not the intention of any faculty member to do anything behind a parent’s back or in any kind of secret way.”

“I do understand that parents would desire to be a part of something so wonderful happening in the lives of their children, and so I apologize that we did not take that into consideration in that moment,” McLamb said. “I pray that at the end of the day we will all rejoice because God truly did a work in the lives of our students.”

McLamb told the paper that the school should have given students a chance to contact parents and ask permission. “We were not expecting such an overwhelming response to the message that was spoken, but as a mother I certainly can empathize with why some parents were upset,” she said.

McLamb said that most of the parents that contacted her were glad, but some were unhappy with the move. Some of the children had already been baptized, and at least one family was concerned that a second baptism could undo the first."

More than 100 students baptized without parents’ permission at North Carolina school | WGN-TV

Yes, I agree that this is quite unethical as parental permission should have been used.

 

[F1fan]

Perhaps the special ability of making an honest effort in trying to understand and objectivley analice some of the arguments for the existence of God (fine tuning argument, moral argument, Kalam Cosmological argument etc...)

These are not sound argument as smart and critical minds show in their honest efforts. It is theists who ignore the problems in these arguments are are not making the effort. Reasoning is a skill, not a special ability. It can be learned if the effort is put forth. Faith and religious belief is easy, and appeals to the emotions and primal needs to belong. Intelligent, emotionally intelligent people will know this.

Your rejection towards baptism and label it as child abuse seem to show that you are angry at God.

It's not gods doing this to children, it is fallible adults who want their religious dogma to be carried on in their children. It is adults whose behaviors I am critical of here. Are you not able to understand this? As I noted children do not understand abstract ideas typical in region, yet adults indoctrinate them. This can cause distress for these young as they develop later in life.

A "normal " atheist would be indiferent about baptism. in the same way you would be indiferent if your son joins the "unicorn club "

You are incorrect. I explained the concern of forcing a child into doing rituals they are not developed enough to understand and agree.

And putting "normal" in quotes suggests the meaning is not true at face value, so "not normal" is what you mean?

 

[leroy]

These are not sound argument as smart and critical minds show in their honest efforts. It is theists who ignore the problems in these arguments are are not making the effort. Reasoning is a skill, not a special ability. It can be learned if the effort is put forth. Faith and religious belief is easy, and appeals to the emotions and primal needs to belong. Intelligent, emotionally intelligent people will know this.

Well perhaps you are a rare exception, but based on my experience atheist usually don’t understand these arguments.

It's not gods doing this to children, it is fallible adults who want their religious dogma to be carried on in their children. It is adults whose behaviors I am critical of here. Are you not able to understand this? As I noted children do not understand abstract ideas typical in region, yet adults indoctrinate them. This can cause distress for these young as they develop later in life.

Adults are just sharing what they think is true // but my point is that you wouldn’t mind if children join “other clubs” even if they are based on science fiction characters, so why make an exception with the “Christian Club” ?

You are incorrect. I explained the concern of forcing a child into doing rituals they are not developed enough to understand and agree.

I agree that Forcing children to baptize is useless from a theological point of view, but it´s not wrong (just useless)

This is becoming circular, perhaps it´s just me that I am unable to see something, it is just that I don’t get why under atheism is spraying some water and reading a few paragraphs of the gospel of Mathew is considered child abuse.

Or more generally why is sharing what Christians think is true child abuse? If you share with a child that you are an atheist/agonstic/nontheist/( or whatever you call you self) and the reason why you are an atheist, would you call it child abuse? (I assume no)

If you share with a child the multiverse hypothesis and why you think is true, is that child abuse?(I assume no)

Is sharing with a child your poroposed solution to the trolly problem, or your thoughts on abortion, or your thoughts on gay marrige etc child abuse?(I assume no)

So it seems to me that you are making an arbitrary exception with people who share christianity with others,

 

[F1fan]

Well perhaps you are a rare exception, but based on my experience atheist usually don’t understand these arguments.

No, atheists tend to understand the flaws while theists do not.

Adults are just sharing what they think is true // but my point is that you wouldn’t mind if children join “other clubs” even if they are based on science fiction characters, so why make an exception with the “Christian Club” ?

I agree that Forcing children to baptize is useless from a theological point of view, but it´s not wrong (just useless)

Adults are often wrong. Religious ideologies are not fact based. They should not be said to be true to children. If anything teach children about all the major religions of the world, that will give kids the awareness of the broad religious diversity in human civilization.

This is becoming circular, perhaps it´s just me that I am unable to see something, it is just that I don’t get why under atheism is spraying some water and reading a few paragraphs of the gospel of Mathew is considered child abuse.

It's not a garden party, it is a ritual that implies a truth that has no basis in fact, and children are not old enough to question what the motives and reasons the adults have in subjecting children to complex and confusing behaviors. It is exploitive and manipulative.

Or more generally why is sharing what Christians think is true child abuse? If you share with a child that you are an atheist/agonstic/nontheist/( or whatever you call you self) and the reason why you are an atheist, would you call it child abuse? (I assume no)

Because children do not understand. Are you not following this? It is abuse because children are being subjected to social behaviors they have no control over, nor understand.

If you share with a child the multiverse hypothesis and why you think is true, is that child abuse?(I assume no)

Science is fact based. Religious dogma is not. Are you not capable of understanding this difference?

Is sharing with a child your poroposed solution to the trolly problem, or your thoughts on abortion, or your thoughts on gay marrige etc child abuse?(I assume no)

Again, that is an intellectual exercise, not religious dogma being imposed onto an unprepared mind.

So it seems to me that you are making an arbitrary exception with people who share christianity with others,

You are incorrect, again. Are you incapable of discerning these distinctions that I have explained above?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or... Maybe the kids stepped up and didn't tell anyone they had already been baptized.
Once or twice makes no difference so what's the harm you are complaining about?

If they just stepped up it suggests that maybe it wasn't explained to them because a second one does nothing. Or was the school just desperate to get the number as high as they could amd not caring if they were sloppy in achieving it. Yes, it's also possible the kids wanted it, but they've already been so it makes no sense to do it again.
And I'm not saying there was necessarily a harm or wrong done. I'm pointing this part of the story is most curious because baptizing someone twice is very unusual and not at all normal, thus raising questions regarding how this was conducted.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well as a Christian I do belive in Satan, so under my view, inviting someone to worship Satan would be dangerous and wrong.

And that's just your belief. I knew many neo-Pagans who call your god evil and those such as Moses practitioners of black magic.
But such moral judgements really don't get us far and it's not addressing my question of what if it was other religions that did this?

Granted, but in that cases "threads" should be your problem, not the baptidm itself

You apparently haven't been well reading my posts because I have been going on for awhile that I do have questions surrounding how this was done, especially that some recieved a second baptism. And trying to focus on one example, peer pressure, doesn't mean I brought up other areas of possible concern.

 

[Shaul]

Some of the people that protest children having a right to choose to be baptized have no qualms with children being able to get tattoos or self mutilate themselves because they “identify” with the opposite sex.

 

[leroy]

No, atheists tend to understand the flaws while theists do not.

Well that would be the flaw of the Fine tuning argument for example? (as developed by William lane creig)?

Adults are often wrong. Religious ideologies are not fact based. They should not be said to be true to children. If anything teach children about all the major religions of the world, that will give kids the awareness of the broad religious diversity in human civilization.

Well , the intent is to present true fact based ideologies, so at worst Christians would be making honest mistakes (not delivered lies)

You are incorrect, again. Are you incapable of discerning these distinctions that I have explained above?

Yes I am unable to see a distinction,


So lets me see if I understand

1 Theachin that Jesus rose from the dead (child abuse)

2 teaching your own particular view of Jesus (whatever it might be) …………it´s ok (despite the fact that your own particular view about Jesus might be wrong)

 

[leroy]

And that's just your belief. I knew many neo-Pagans who call your god evil and those such as Moses practitioners of black magic.
But such moral judgements really don't get us far and it's not addressing my question of what if it was other religions that did this?

yes from the point of view of a muslim or any other religion who thinks that worshiping jesus is wrong, then I agree form their point of view baptism is wrong and dangerous and I´ll understand why are they angry

but an atheist shouldnt care

You apparently haven't been well reading my posts because I have been going on for awhile that I do have questions surrounding how this was done, especially that some recieved a second baptism. And trying to focus on one example, peer pressure, doesn't mean I brought up other areas of possible concern.

Well the OP doesn’t answer the question of how it was done., so I don’t know

And yes I understand that a Christian might get angry like in the second baptism example……………..what I don’t get is why would an atheist care if he or his son was baptized.

 

[leroy]

Some of the people that protest children having a right to choose to be baptized have no qualms with children being able to get tattoos or self mutilate themselves because they “identify” with the opposite sex.

I bet they do

 

[F1fan]

Well that would be the flaw of the Fine tuning argument for example? (as developed by William lane creig)?

The fine tuning claim is that life is too complex to have formed by natural means. Of course religious people are implying a supernatural cause (for which there is no evidence or even plausible model).

OK, sure, if you want to argue for fine tuning then you have to explain why things are as they are, like why are their birth defects? Why are many children born with genetics that cause cancers and their death? Or any genetic faults that cause harm, pain and death?

If theists re going to claim that life is caused by a God, then they had better explain what is "fine tuned" about cancers and deformities. If all children were born perfectly healthy then that would be impressive, but they aren't. Humans are no more special than any other animal or organism.

Theists have no interest in this idea except that they can leap frog from one idea to the next and conclude "God did it". Great, God causes cancers.


Well , the intent is to present true fact based ideologies, so at worst Christians would be making honest mistakes (not delivered lies)

Yes I am unable to see a distinction,

That is your liability, not atheists who exhibit a reasoned set of conclusions about these matters.

So lets me see if I understand

1 Theachin that Jesus rose from the dead (child abuse)

2 teaching your own particular view of Jesus (whatever it might be) …………it´s ok (despite the fact that your own particular view about Jesus might be wrong)

No religious views are objectively true. To teach any religious tradition implying it is true to children is immoral. Adults come clean about Santa and the Easter Bunny being fictional, but not Allah, or Jesus, or Vishnu, etc. We see Christian extremists very frightened of religion when it is Islam.

Remember this?

Oklahoma bans Sharia law

and then this happened because it was illegal:

Court Strikes Down Oklahoma Shariah Ban