More Internal Spying

[maggie2]

Just hearing on the news that USA Today has broken a huge story about the fact that the NSA has been collecting lists of records of phone calls on millions of Americans. And now Bush is on television and using 9/11 again as an excuse for usurping civil liberties.

I cannot believe how much this government has abused the freedoms of Americans. As an outsider looking on I am amazed at how much freedom Americans have given up because the government has instilled fear in them. I want to weep when I see America losing the very freedoms it fought so hard to obtain. There was a day when I and many, many others saw America as the most liberated and free country in the world. Today I would say that America has lost so much of its freedom that it more resembles the way the USSR operated before its collapse.

When are our American friends going to wake up and recognize how much they have lost? When are they going to start to take back their precious freedom? It breaks my heart to see this happening.

 

[Sunstone]

I wonder what the folks who said the government only spies on suspected terrorists make of this now?

Unfortunately, Maggie, this revelation has every chance of dying an abrupt death in the media, replaced by an exciting car chase, or urgent sex scandal. I don't have a TV, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Fox and CNN aren't focusing their coverage on tornados today. Americans are more concerned with gas prices than liberties, I suspect.

 

[c0da]

Does anybody want to take bets on how many '1984' analogies we will hear if this thread takes off.

 

[GloriaPatri]

I don't understand how anyone can rationally support this. Well, other than the Bushbots.

 

[michel]

I wonder what the folks who said the government only spies on suspected terrorists make of this now?

Unfortunately, Maggie, this revelation has every chance of dying an abrupt death in the media, replaced by an exciting car chase, or urgent sex scandal. I don't have a TV, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Fox and CNN aren't focusing their coverage on tornados today. Americans are more concerned with gas prices than liberties, I suspect.

You don't have a TV? Sunstone, I am so sorry. Is it Mrs Latex ? Does she refuse you to have one, because if it is, I can write her a note, if you like.

Your view of the denouement of this is really quite depressing, but I guess spot on. Why is there such a lack of interest?.......Is it because everyone knows it is going on and "There's nothing that you can do about it ?"

 

[Jaymes]

Does anybody want to take bets on how many '1984' analogies we will hear if this thread takes off.

I can't say I'd find them too inaccurate.

 

[Booko]

Just hearing on the news that USA Today has broken a huge story about the fact that the NSA has been collecting lists of records of phone calls on millions of Americans. And now Bush is on television and using 9/11 again as an excuse for usurping civil liberties.

This was eminently predictable, and was predicted by those who know our history well. We had the same exact thing happen with the wiretapping scandals of the 30s. <<Plus ca change, la meme chose.>>

When are our American friends going to wake up and recognize how much they have lost? When are they going to start to take back their precious freedom? It breaks my heart to see this happening.

When we stop watching our "bread and circuses" and pay attention to what's going on. Or when the Men in Black show up on the doorstep. Of course, by then it will be too late, won't it?

The even stupider thing about this is, while NSA is busy spinning its wheels spying on us, they're so swamped in intelligence "noise" they are less likely to detect actual terrorists.

Strangly enough, it does lift hopes a bit...who would have leaked this info to the press, if not some career civil servant who is upset by the unAmericanness of it all?

I'm just hearing the excuse is "oh, we're not listening to your calls..." Well, excuse me...and why exactly do they even need to know who the masses of Americans are calling? It's not their business, period.

I wonder what will happen to Bush's ever-lowering approval rating after this begins to sink in.

 

[Booko]

I wonder what the folks who said the government only spies on suspected terrorists make of this now?

Unfortunately, Maggie, this revelation has every chance of dying an abrupt death in the media, replaced by an exciting car chase, or urgent sex scandal. I don't have a TV, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Fox and CNN aren't focusing their coverage on tornados today. Americans are more concerned with gas prices than liberties, I suspect.

Actually, they're spending a lot of tv time on this story. The fact that apparently some Republicans in Congress are upset probably will keep this on for a little while. It's an election year, after all. Six months ago if this had broke, it would have died sooner.

There won't be any significant investigation, of course, because they'll do what they are doing about the other case involving NSA domestic spying. They'll just refuse to release "classified" documents, which means there will be no proof.

 

[Booko]

I don't understand how anyone can rationally support this. Well, other than the Bushbots.

I just heard Jeff Sessions (R-Alabama) say that this wasn't warrantless wiretapping...I mean, they didn't listen in to actual conversations...they just collected all the date of who calls whom in this country...and there are TERRORISTS out there!

Uh huh.

 

[c0da]

I can't say I'd find them too inaccurate.

Oh I do agree to an extent, there are certainly similarities that can be drawn here. It is wrong for a the government of the 'land of the free' to be taking away freedoms, but it is becoming a bit of a tired old cliche, and an exaggerated cliche at that. It's not like your taken away and killed for thinking, let alone saying the wrong thing.

 

[Booko]

Your view of the denouement of this is really quite depressing, but I guess spot on. Why is there such a lack of interest?.......Is it because everyone knows it is going on and "There's nothing that you can do about it ?"

It's just our version of Bread & Circuses.

There is a lot of "nothing that you can do about it" even when voting is concerned. Have you seen the low voter turnouts we have here in the land of the free? sheesh

Some of this, imo, is justified, because most elections, esp. at the higher levels, don't give any real choice any more. There's a perception, not unjustified, that our representatives are bought and paid for by other interests. There are some limits on this, I submit, in that if they go tooooo far astray, they will get voted out. But the PR machines in this country have gotten very good at keeping info out of the news or discrediting other povs as crazed wackos.

I have great faith in my fellow Americans to finally figure out that they're being had, and believe they would really like to do the right thing.

What scares the bejeezus out of me is that we are the greatest military power on Earth, and Americans right now are paying more attention to the likes of American Idol than to how they are being screwed by the powers that be or how the powers that be are screwing others in the world.

If you feel afraid of our government sometimes -- you should be. Political parties don't even enter into it, afaic.

The existence of other groups like the EU and other English-speaking countries, who together have a significant military abilitly, are imo probably the one thing besides American opinion that serves to put the brakes on the aims of some of these people.

edit: well that and some business interests, but that's about it.

 

[Booko]

Oh I do agree to an extent, there are certainly similarities that can be drawn here. It is wrong for a the government of the 'land of the free' to be taking away freedoms, but it is becoming a bit of a tired old cliche, and an exaggerated cliche at that. It's not like your taken away and killed for thinking, let alone saying the wrong thing.

So true. We're all here typing and no one has showed up at anyone's door yet.

Still, this is how oppression begins. We were told by our Founding Dads that to keep a democratic form of gov't we needed to remain ever vigilant. Our vigilance is seriously off these days. I can only hope that the latest domestic spying scandal will serve as some sort of wake up call.

 

[Sunstone]

You don't have a TV? Sunstone, I am so sorry. Is it Mrs Latex ? Does she refuse you to have one, because if it is, I can write her a note, if you like.

I don't enjoy TV on a regular basis, Michel, but I do enjoy it occassionally. Especially movies. My family has given me 3 TV's over the years, thinking I would appreciate one simply because I didn't have one. But in each case, after the dust on them has gotten to be about a quarter inch thick, I've given them away to someone or another who enjoyes TV more than I do. I have a friend who, whenever I visit him, insists I sit down and watch movies, along with Fox News, so I don't use my own TV even when I have one.

Your view of the denouement of this is really quite depressing, but I guess spot on. Why is there such a lack of interest?.......Is it because everyone knows it is going on and "There's nothing that you can do about it ?"

I imagine there are several reasons for the general lack of interest Americans are showing in serious issues these days, and I can only speculate on what those reasons might be. One might be the consequences of an increasingly impoverished public education. Another might be an increasing williness of the news programs to replace serious issues with "issues" pandering to the largest possible audience share. A third reason might be that more and more Americans are tuning out challenging or disturbing news in favor of shopping for news that fits their preconceptions and moods, and causes them fewer worries. Again, there's some evidence that Americans feel a bit worn out and overwhelmed by all the problems their society faces, and would prefer escapism to pondering solutions. Lastly, we're a consumer society that thinks in some fundamental way that we have a right to shop for the views we want, rather than deal with the world as it is. And, there are probably other reasons as well. Those, at least, are my speculations. Do any of those reasons ring plausible for you Brits, too?

 

[standing_alone]

Sadly, I don't think many Americans will even care - and many will stand behind and defend that idiot we have running this country. Can't say that the stuff mentioned in the OP is exactly news to me, but I want to know why so many United States citizens just keep taking this s***. Why do so many sit idly by while the government continues to violate freedoms - the very thing this country praises itself for?

 

[darkwaldo]

Grrrrr, I don't want to move back to America. Ya know, I'm more worried about getting mugged or murdered by my own countrymen, affording healthcare, or wondering if the goverenment is spying on me, more than I am worried about any terrorist out there. I think our government is inadequate.

 

[evearael]

So how do you think the restrictions in America compare to the restrictions in Japan?

 

[darkwaldo]

Actually, as a foreigner, I'm much more restricted here in Japan than I am in America as far as the type of jobs I can get and rights. I would have to jump through hoops to get a working visa, and jump through even more hoops, lit on fire, to become a citizen. As a citizen of Japan, I think there would be less restrictions than in America. Even when I return on a working visa, I'm in the military now, I'll be able to take advantage of the state run healthcare, relatively low crime, and the mass transit system. I may not be able to vote, but nearly everything here is just right for me, I don't think I would worry about it too much. I love being able to buy beer from a vending machine! As a foreigner, I would certainly be more restricted in some ways, I won't have to deal with the issues I was complaining about in my last post.

 

[Booko]

Well, maybe there won't be much news coverage of this. Regrettably, the news just broke that a plane crashed in Miami. Those of you who live here know what happens to the news coverage now.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, maybe there won't be much news coverage of this. Regrettably, the news just broke that a plane crashed in Miami. Those of you who live here know what happens to the news coverage now.

NPR will try to hold out for a while, but they'll feel like the lone Quaker at a Southern Baptist Convention.

 

[darkwaldo]

There won't be any significant investigation, of course, because they'll do what they are doing about the other case involving NSA domestic spying. They'll just refuse to release "classified" documents, which means there will be no proof.

Thats exactly what happened.

http://www.crisscross.com/us/news/25611