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Miracles
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
lukethethird
unknown member
Why, are you looking for an argument?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
What kind of mirale are you thinking of?
Skwim
Veteran Member
In as much as this is a debate forum I would hope so.
And in answer to frbnsn, if miracles actually existed my guess would be that they wouldn't pop up for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and therefore be caused for a reason. So I don't see them as being contrary to the causal principle at all; the causal principle stating that everything is deterministic.
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No, because there is an identifiable cause ie God
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Every thing must have a cause, right from the moment that It generated the illusion of the universe through will.
Nope. The laws of thermodynamics, including the 1st law which accounts for causality did not exist until after this universe was formed. Therefore it it possible that our universe was uncaused.
can you identify god?
Only by a process of elimination which is admittedly problematic since we couldn’t rule out natural causes without a comprehensive knowledge of natural causes.
ETA which is part of the reason I don’t place much faith in miracles
Nature is well understood.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Do you mean the law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
What does you guys see as miracle? some examples?
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Beneficial happenings that we call Miracles do occur.
by definition they are unexplained.
Their causes are unknown.
An equally beneficial happening, that's cause is known, is not called a Miracle.
Miracles are usually put down to "God Did it"
However a more honest description, is that we have no idea how they come about, as we do not know of any mechanisms that might have caused them.
There is a very large difference between not understanding a cause, and denying that a cause exists.
by definition they are unexplained.
Their causes are unknown.
An equally beneficial happening, that's cause is known, is not called a Miracle.
Miracles are usually put down to "God Did it"
However a more honest description, is that we have no idea how they come about, as we do not know of any mechanisms that might have caused them.
There is a very large difference between not understanding a cause, and denying that a cause exists.
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My error. The second law of thermodynamics accounts for causality.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
What does this law state in 30 words (not more)?
I can do it in one word, "google" i can only educate for myself, i cannot learn for you.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
You are the person who is convinced that it told you all about the philosophy of causality.
Causality is not a philosophy. And you are the one laying down limits on how many words you will accept as education. And you are the one making claims that everything must have a cause.
So how about you stating in 30 words or less why everything must have a cause
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Things were not as they are and they will change tomorrow: they were different yesterday, and the month before etc going back 14.5 billion years to the Big Bang such that every development was caused through evolution of the universe on whatever preceded it: do you accept that much?
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Nope. Your train of events works well up to 10e-24 of a second after the bb and for everything above the quantum level.
Prior to the bb and after up to 10e-43 of second is unknown. Between 10e-43 and 10e-24 of a second this universe began to resolve itself including the formation of the universal laws that govern this universe.
Not for another 380000 years when the first atoms formed could those laws actually have real effect.
P.s. you post was more than 30 words... Your rule