Michael Kaufman and Michael Kimmel: The Guy's Guide to Feminism

[MysticSang'ha]

Haven't bought it yet, but I've read through an excerpt and find it inviting to this generation of skeptics and the uneducated.

The Guy's Guide to Feminism: Michael Kaufman, Michael Kimmel: 9781580053624: Amazon.com: Books

From the amazon review:

In just one generation, age-old ideas about women have been swept aside . . . but what does that have to do with men? Authors Michael Kaufman and Michael Kimmel, two of the world’s leading male advocates of gender equality, believe it has everything to do with them—and that it’s crucial to educate men about feminism in order for them to fully understand just how important and positive these changes have been for them.

 

[Horrorble]

I don't know, why do we need a book about how great feminism is for men. Feminism is a woman's movement I'm not saying men can't be apart of it, but I don't need an LGBT book to talk about how their freedom is great for me! I care about homophobia because it is wrong, because I care about people, not because there is something in it for me.

 

[Sunstone]

Sounds like a good idea to me. No matter how noble it might or might not be for someone to support feminism simply because it's the right thing to do, experience of the world indicates that most of us are more persuaded by our own self interests than by what's the right thing to do. So, a book like this, if it does indeed tie feminism to the self interest of men, would seem to address a large audience.

 

[Horrorble]

And this is where we fail in my opinion. Women feminists have had to try and prove their humanity to men, "educating" or whatever you want to call it. Now it's about making it about the concerns of men? Making sure it's about them too, that they feel their needs are being met?....whatever

 

[Sunstone]

And this is where we fail in my opinion. Women feminists have had to try and prove their humanity to men, "educating" or whatever you want to call it. Now it's about making it about the concerns of men? Making sure it's about them too, that they feel their needs are being met?....whatever

I don't see it as so extreme. But then, I haven't read the book. So, what do I know?

 

[crossfire]

[youtube]xPtToL6kWSI[/youtube]
The Guy's Guide To Feminism with Michael Kaufman - YouTube

It says it's an hour long, but it times out at 9 mins.

 

[Horrorble]

I don't see it as so extreme. But then, I haven't read the book. So, what do I know?

Neither have I, I was thinking about the last line of the blurb.
I think I may read it though.

 

[Horrorble]

Mine is going past 9 mins try re loading it

 

[Sunstone]

It says it's an hour long, but it times out at 9 mins.

I got to about 16 minutes until it timed out. Pretty interesting, so far. I was especially interested in his notion that choosing to be feminist rests on a moral choice that the situation as it exists is wrong.

 

[Horrorble]

I watched all of it, it was pretty good and didn't really focus on how feminism benefits men.

Everything he said women feminists have been saying for a long time. I found it interesting that he brought up men's power over language and how it's been used to define women. Although like I said women have been saying this for decades. Dworkin wrote like a whole chapter about the power of naming and language in her book "pornography: men possessing women" which changed my life.

 

[Horrorble]

You people need a better Internet connection XD lol!!!

 

[Alceste]

And this is where we fail in my opinion. Women feminists have had to try and prove their humanity to men, "educating" or whatever you want to call it. Now it's about making it about the concerns of men? Making sure it's about them too, that they feel their needs are being met?....whatever

These are guy feminists writing a book for other guys. I don't see the problem with that. They probably have unique insights about feminism through a guy's lens that female feminists don't have.

I'm not possessive about it - the more the merrier. The whole point of my interest is that I want to destroy gender discrimination and help establish a truly gender-blind culture, where we can all act according to our own individual nature without freaking people out. How can I do that if I say I don't want men contributing their ideas to the movement? If they're good ideas, I say go for it.

 

[Horrorble]

These are guy feminists writing a book for other guys. I don't see the problem with that. They probably have unique insights about feminism through a guy's lens that female feminists don't have.

I'm not possessive about it - the more the merrier. The whole point of my interest is that I want to destroy gender discrimination and help establish a truly gender-blind culture, where we can all act according to our own individual nature without freaking people out. How can I do that if I say I don't want men contributing their ideas to the movement? If they're good ideas, I say go for it.

It wasn't about contributing ideas, it was about men only being comfortable with feminism if it directly benefits them, and feminists feeding into that.
And I retracted and said I thought the video was good and that it wasn't about that at all.

 

[Alceste]

It wasn't about contributing ideas, it was about men only being comfortable with feminism if it directly benefits them, and feminists feeding into that.
And I retracted and said I thought the video was good and that it wasn't about that at all.

Fair enough. I got 40 minutes in before my hubby called me up for supper. I thought he had some good points, if basic.

 

[Horrorble]

Fair enough. I got 40 minutes in before my hubby called me up for supper. I thought he had some good points, if basic.

Yeah it was really an introduction to some feminist issues. Probably would appeal more to teenagers, as I get the impression it's an easy read. You could find more detail in "the second sex" for example, there is definitely better feminist literature out there that has been written by women. But books like this is are good of they get people to start thinking more deeply about feminism and gender myths.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah it was really an introduction to some feminist issues. Probably would appeal more to teenagers, as I get the impression it's an easy read. You could find more detail in "the second sex" for example, there is definitely better feminist literature out there that has been written by women. But books like this is are good of they get people to start thinking more deeply about feminism and gender myths.

True, and let's face it - some guys only read stuff written by other guys. My brother is like that. He probably doesn't even know it. But there's not a single book by a woman on his shelf, fiction or non. I think he's read some Margaret Atwood, but it annoyed him. So this book might reach a few people who would not otherwise read anything at all on the subject.

 

[Horrorble]

True, and let's face it - some guys only read stuff written by other guys. My brother is like that. He probably doesn't even know it. But there's not a single book by a woman on his shelf, fiction or non. I think he's read some Margaret Atwood, but it annoyed him. So this book might reach a few people who would not otherwise read anything at all on the subject.

"It annoyed him" lol! Why, what's wrong with Maggie A? She doesn't even identify as a feminist writer, even though I would classify some of her work as feminist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It wasn't about contributing ideas, it was about men only being comfortable with feminism if it directly benefits them, and feminists feeding into that.
And I retracted and said I thought the video was good and that it wasn't about that at all.

I understand the knee jerk reaction, though. Especially after hanging out here long enough reading page after page of saying that feminism is inherently sexist, that we ought to abandon the label and go with "humanism" (even if some humanist groups still abide by patriarchal leanings and verbiage).

I really like what these two fellas are attempting to do. As frustrating as it is sometimes (given that they're saying what feminists have been saying all along), the fact that there is a success rate with conveying feminism to the masses that are males is something to applaud.

 

[Alceste]

"It annoyed him" lol! Why, what's wrong with Maggie A? She doesn't even identify as a feminist writer, even though I would classify some of her work as feminist.

Women annoy him. He's from Alberta. What can I say? Obviously I think he's the bees knees cuz he's my big brother, but I can't help noticing he's not very skilled with the ladies. He does things like correct their grammar and fact check their opinions in real time. And hey, some people do that, but he only does it to females, especially the ones he's dating. Unsurprisingly, he has trouble holding onto them.

I feel bad for him. We have a totally ridiculous father.

 

[Horrorble]

I understand the knee jerk reaction, though. Especially after hanging out here long enough reading page after page of saying that feminism is inherently sexist, that we ought to abandon the label and go with "humanism" (even if some humanist groups still abide by patriarchal leanings and verbiage).

I really like what these two fellas are attempting to do. As frustrating as it is sometimes (given that they're saying what feminists have been saying all along), the fact that there is a success rate with conveying feminism to the masses that are males is something to applaud.

Thanks for the understanding. People are disappointing even on this forum, not just on feminism but views on housing and immigration and denying racism.