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Messiah Ben Joseph versus Messiah Ben David

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Ben, If you are not honest enough to be straight instead of trying to twist things then that is your downfall. I have shown time and time again that you keep hopping from one foot to another. In truth you have not shown anything in support of anything you had said. You deny something one minute then don't deny it and accuse others falsely. If you really know God then why don't you understand the truth. Even basic truths from the time of Christ amongst the Jews seem to evade you. That is the problem with the Jews they took a teaching and made it what they wanted it to be. Something to fit within their lifestyle. But knowing God is about changing our lifestyle to fit in with his definition regarding the truth in his teachings. Have you ever humbled yourself before God and asked him to show you the truth. Messianic Jews know the truth and why do you believe that to be so? I don't see you have an points you have proved NOTHING but shown your ideas to be incorrect and unstable in your thought pattern.

Okay, now, tell me Resolution, was Jesus a Christian or was he a Jew? If he was a Jew, why do you try to picture him as a Christian? Am I being straight enough or not? Who is trying to twist things here, myself or you? It is your turn; tell me the Truth if you have it? The Truth is in the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach. That's the gospel of the Jews. Show me where I am wrong. Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God if you read John 17:17; the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalms 147:19,20. If the gospel of Jesus is telling the Truth, how could I be wrong? If you don't adopt the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach, how could you ever have the Truth? If you claim to adopt the Tanach, how can you teach against it? By teaching the Hellenism of the NT, you are simply teaching against the gospel of Jesus.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Okay, now, tell me Resolution, was Jesus a Christian or was he a Jew?
A Jew but YHWH is the God of the Jews but he isn't a Jew.



If he was a Jew, why do you try to picture him as a Christian?
I don't picture him as anything but the Son of God and Messiah, Yeshua the saviour.
All who are in Christ as Jews. read Romans 11.

Am I being straight enough or not?
You are assuming things which are not correct.


Who is trying to twist things here, myself or you?
YOU! as you see above you are jumping from one foot to another because you do not know what I believe
and are responding only to your own view on things.

It is your turn; tell me the Truth if you have it?

I have the truth but how can you receive any truth when all you have is your own idea of your truth and push that idea onto others as shown above?


The Truth is in the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach.
See how you move the goal post to hide the actually things discussed which you were wrong about.
Jesus is the truth he brought the final word from God so Pharisee and Sadducee could not believe different things any longer.
He made the truth he gave through Christ his final word hence nothing which came after was relevant. For Christ is the Messiah and the Saviour.
John 16:13.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Christ came so all men who believe in him can be taught by the Holy Spirit. I would warn you to tread carefully here for the Lord also warned about blasphemy of the Holy
Spirit.


That's the gospel of the Jews. Show me where I am wrong.

Not what I called you out on. My answers have already shown I know the truth and I have shown
your ideas of what I believe to be inept and totally without foundation in truth.

Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God if you read John 17:17; the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalms 147:19,20.

King James Bible
The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Who rejected Jesus?

Isaiah 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Christ said:
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We know from the beginning that anyone who does the will of God is accepted by God.
The Jews do not make people acceptable just obedience to the word of God himself by God himself.


If the gospel of Jesus is telling the Truth, how could I be wrong?

You use that gospel of Jesus to judge others based on your own wrong beliefs about the gospel and other people. You now try to hide behind the bible and it shows you
lack basic knowledge about salvation being for the Jew and the Gentile. Throughout all of the covenants God has accepted Gentiles who have done the right thing by him and his people.
He has given us his teachings and those teachings do tell us that our neighbour whom we are to love is anyone who needs our help and to know the way.
The woman who came to Christ for her daughters healing. " Even dogs have the right to gather up the crumbs from under their masters table."
He healed her daughter. Peter showed what man thinks unclean is not important. What God says is unclean is important.
Peter preached to the Gentiles the same gospel and many believed and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Then baptism of water..
It was the faith of Peter recognising who Christ was, which the Church was built upon. All who do what is right in Gods sight are acceptable to him.





If you don't adopt the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach, how could you ever have the Truth?

King James Bible
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.


Jeremiah 31:31-34
Read the passage.

If you claim to adopt the Tanach, how can you teach against it? By teaching the Hellenism of the NT, you are simply teaching against the gospel of Jesus.

No evidence at all to support your unfounded allegation. As God promises us:-
Isaiah 54:17.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

As I have said before, I love God before Jesus and I follow Christs example not Paul or even Peter. Because the truth is what Christ taught us.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
A Jew but YHWH is the God of the Jews but he isn't a Jew.

I asked about Jesus, not HaShem. Of course I know that HaShem was not a Jew.

I don't picture him as anything but the Son of God and Messiah, Yeshua the saviour. All who are in Christ as Jews. read Romans 11.

That's because of your Christian preconceived notions.

You are assuming things which are not correct.

Prove it!

YOU! as you see above you are jumping from one foot to another because you do not know what I believe
and are responding only to your own view on things.

We are talking about Jesus who happened to be one of my people. So, I get the priority to be right.

I have the truth but how can you receive any truth when all you have is your own idea of your truth and push that idea onto others as shown above?

You are using one of my people to promote your Christian views. Use a non-Jew and I won't context.

See how you move the goal post to hide the actually things discussed which you were wrong about.
Jesus is the truth he brought the final word from God so Pharisee and Sadducee could not believe different things any longer. He made the truth he gave through Christ his final word hence nothing which came after was relevant. For
Christ is the Messiah and the Saviour.

Jesus could not have been the Messiah as an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Christ came so all men who believe in him can be taught by the Holy Spirit. I would warn you to tread carefully here for the Lord also warned about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

What things to come did Jesus show? He was born, lived a very short life and died just like any other mortal.


Not what I called you out on. My answers have already shown I know the truth and I have shown
your ideas of what I believe to be inept and totally without foundation in truth.

All you have said so far is according to the NT which was written to contradict the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach. That's is not the same as the Truth. The Truth is the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalm 147:19,20.

King James Bible The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. Who rejected Jesus?

The stone is Israel and only Christians have rejected the real Jesus for what he really was and, to this day struggle to make a Christian out of him.

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


Israel is the right Servant of the Lord if you read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21. Did Jesus raise up the Tribes of Jacob? Show me in his own gospel aka the Tanach. See what I mean? And Israel was assigned as a light for the Gentiles if you read Isaiah 42:6.


Christ said: 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. We know from the beginning that anyone who does the will of God is accepted by God. The Jews do not make people acceptable just obedience to the word of God himself by God himself.


Don't forget John 4:22 above that "Salvation comes from the Jews." From the Jews, he said, not from one among the Jews. You say above that Jews don't make people acceptable! Many Christians are converting to Judaism according to Halacha aka Jewish law. We have stopped proselytizing because of persecutions by Christians throughout History.

You use that gospel of Jesus to judge others based on your own wrong beliefs about the gospel and other people. You now try to hide behind the bible and it shows you lack basic knowledge about salvation being for the Jew and the Gentile. Throughout all of the covenants God has accepted Gentiles who have done the right thing by him and his people. He has given us his teachings and those teachings do tell us that our neighbour whom we are to love is anyone who needs our help and to know the way. The woman who came to Christ for her daughters healing. " Even dogs have the right to gather up the crumbs from under their masters table." He healed her daughter. Peter showed what man thinks unclean is not important. What God says is unclean is important. Peter preached to the Gentiles the same gospel and many believed and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Then baptism of water.. If was the faith of Peter recognising who Christ was, which the Church was built upon. All who do what is right in Gods sight are acceptable to him.

Again, Jesus was a Jew and his gospel was the Tanach. It just happens that we have the same gospel. Yes, God has
accepted Gentiles but Jesus didn't. Every time he sent his disciples on a mission to spread the gospel of salvation, he would warn them not to take the way to the Gentiles, especially Samaritans if you read Mat. 10:5,6. Personally, I don't
believe he did that but... hey, it is in your NT.

As I have said before, I love God before Jesus and I follow Christs example not Paul or even Peter. Because the truth is what Christ taught us.

The Truth is what Jesus taught in his own gospel aka the Tanach. Never forget that he was a Jew and not a Christian.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
I asked about Jesus, not HaShem. Of course I know that HaShem was not a Jew.

You totally missed the point , I see.


That's because of your Christian preconceived notions.]

I was taught OT before NT. God himself I believe guided me and opened my mind to the scripture.
As a child I always conceived the notion that Moses was my ancestor. It was only as I grew older I realised he was.
My heavenly Father made Moses and the Israelites very real to me. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and like Messianic Jews know
Jesus came in the flesh. No preconceived notions it was always Jesus the Son of God, Moses the main Prophet before him and God our heavenly Father.



Prove it!

Already have... So far you have been unable to maintain or find anything actually wrong which I have said. No scripture and nothing from God within those
scriptures to say I am wrong.


We are talking about Jesus who happened to be one of my people. So, I get the priority to be right.
Jesus one of mine too. I am also a child of the most high God.



You are using one of my people to promote your Christian views. Use a non-Jew and I won't context.
You do not acknowledge Christ as one of your people. Why do you pretend?
Jesus Christ was a Jew but he was also the Messiah and the Son of God. How can he be one of your people if you do not accept him or his teachings as such?
God is not fooled. He knows our hearts.


Jesus could not have been the Messiah as an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
Cherry picking now... Jeremiah 31:31-34.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



Isaiah 53King James Version (KJV)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


If you would admit the truth, the Messiah was suppose to teach you Gods final truth through a covenant which was not like the old.
You see Jesus rose from the dead and we see his seed are the believers who believe God and who will one day share the eternal life God has for all his people upon resurrection.
Abraham saw Christs coming... We see that even Daniel understood Christs coming,...13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. How can there be an end of days if the Messiahs kingdom ON EARTH lasts for ever?

Gods Kingdom in Christ is an eternal Kingdom but not born of earth as it is now. Nor was it ever meant to be so.

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


No human being meant to live forever in this world in their fallen state. So Christ/Messiah had to create an eternal kingdom which was beyond the present and the present creation
in it's human failings.

What things to come did Jesus show? He was born, lived a very short life and died just like any other mortal.

What man has ever done the things he did in such a short time or died in the manner of Isaiah 53?

You are warned by Moses from God himself.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

The Word of God the OT scriptures show that God did not ever intend man to live forever in his present state. That the sins being forgiven also meant that the body had to be new.
Daniel rising at the end of time... shown no eternal kingdom on the earth itself other than the spiritual life brought by Christ to man by the presence of Gods Spirit within us.



All you have said so far is according to the NT which was written to contradict the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach. That's is not the same as the Truth. The Truth is the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalm 147:19,20.
Ruth was not born of the tribes of Israel is her son and their children King David discounted from the people of Israel?
All I have said above so far shows what I believe is OT written not NT written.



The stone is Israel and only Christians have rejected the real Jesus for what he really was and, to this day struggle to make a Christian out of him.

So who would be the builders? Plural not singular. You see Israel the Jews a re the builders and the corner stone is Jesus the Messiah.


Israel is the right Servant of the Lord if you read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21. Did Jesus raise up the Tribes of Jacob? Show me in his own gospel aka the Tanach. See what I mean? And Israel was assigned as a light for the Gentiles if you read Isaiah 42:6.


Don't forget John 4:22 above that "Salvation comes from the Jews." From the Jews, he said, not from one among the Jews. You say above that Jews don't make people acceptable! Many Christians are converting to Judaism according to Halacha aka Jewish law. We have stopped proselytizing because of persecutions by Christians throughout History.

Ridiculous, I have read he OT, the Jews were punished by God because they did not obey the covenant or do what was right by God.
Look at the history when Moses lead them out of Egypt. God parted the sea and provided their escape. Moses two minutes up a mountain and they had melted all their precious metal
and created IDOL to worship. No matter what happened the Israelites complained instead of thanking God and asking for what he would gladly provide and trusting him.
He took 40 years keeping them away from their prize till they learned to walk his way. Christians the gentile Jew did not exist then.



Again, Jesus was a Jew and his gospel was the Tanach. It just happens that we have the same gospel. Yes, God has
accepted Gentiles but Jesus didn't. Every time he sent his disciples on a mission to spread the gospel of salvation, he would warn them not to take the way to the Gentiles, especially Samaritans if you read Mat. 10:5,6. Personally, I don't
believe he did that but... hey, it is in your NT.

Jesus sent to the Jews. But Jesus and the light of the world for the Gentiles too. You knew that when you wrote the earlier part and tried to slip a reply in somehow but the word does not
support your version. For Israel was originally the name given to Jacob because all his sons and their descendants were part of the covenant of many nations and with Isaac.
You see salvation is about knowing the ONLY true God. Anyone who does what is right in the sight of God is accepted by him.
So Israel also the name of ONE and the name which covers many.

The Truth is what Jesus taught in his own gospel aka the Tanach. Never forget that he was a Jew and not a Christian.

You fail to recognise he was a Prophet of the Most High God. Why did the Jews kill so many of Gods Prophets? You could not recognise God leading his Prophets then,
what makes you think you are any better at it today? Why not ask God to show you the truth about Yeshua and who he really is? Isn't being a Jew knowing the true God?
Or do you just believe in the teachings of men?
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
I was taught OT before NT. God himself I believe guided me and opened my mind to the scripture. As a child I always conceived the notion that Moses was my ancestor. It was only as I grew older I realised he was. My heavenly Father made Moses and the Israelites very real to me. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and like Messianic Jews know. Jesus came in the flesh. No preconceived notions it was always Jesus the Son of God, Moses the main Prophet before him and God our heavenly Father.

So, you have conceived the notion that Moses was your ancestor. Jesus said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. Is that how HaShem guided you to the Scriptures? I also believe that Jesus WAS son of God too but as part of the People of Israel whom HaShem said, "Israel is My Son; let My Son go to serve Me." That's in Exodus 4:22,23. We all have come in the flesh. I hope you understand that truth.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
So, you have conceived the notion that Moses was your ancestor. Jesus said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. Is that how HaShem guided you to the Scriptures? I also believe that Jesus WAS son of God too but as part of the People of Israel whom HaShem said, "Israel is My Son; let My Son go to serve Me." That's in Exodus 4:22,23. We all have come in the flesh. I hope you understand that truth.

My mother's, mother's, parents were Jews. As Children we do not have the same prejudices or hang ups about religion as
fractious sects have. Our relationship with God is very innocent and we see all people as one family with God as sole creator.
He chose the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to bring about the salvation of all the tribes of the world.

God does not love one person more than another - he loves them all equally.
If you were not a Jew you were a gentile. And all nations not Jewish come under gentile. But All who believe in the Messiah are Gods people who believe and obey God.

Moses told us the Messiah a Prophet like unto himself would God raise up from amongst their own people.

God never chose men learned of other men did he to serve and be Prophets.
He prepares each person according to his will.
Does those whom God teaches need men to teach them?

I know what God teaches and Christ. Love the one true God with all our heart, mind, body and soul.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
My mother's, mother's, parents were Jews. As Children we do not have the same prejudices or hang ups about religion as fractious sects have. Our relationship with God is very innocent and we see all people as one family with God as sole creator. He chose the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to bring about the salvation of all the tribes of the world. God does not love one person more than another - he loves them all equally. If you were not a Jew you were a gentile. And all nations not Jewish come under gentile. But All who believe in the Messiah are Gods people who believe and obey God. Moses told us the Messiah a Prophet like unto himself would God raise up from amongst their own people. God never chose men learned of other men did he to serve and be Prophets. He prepares each person according to his will. Does those whom God teaches need men to teach them? I know what God teaches and Christ. Love the one true God with all our heart, mind, body and soul.

Do you know something Resolution, your affirmations above only show that you have never read the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach; only the gospel of Paul which was the NT. The Prophet Moses spoke of in Deutenomy 18:15,18 that HaShem would raise up from among His own People like Moses soon after his death was a prophecy that got fulfilled in Joshua if you read Numbers 27:18; and Joshua 3:7; no need to try to apply the policy of Replacement Theology here.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Do you know something Resolution, your affirmations above only show that you have never read the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach; only the gospel of Paul which was the NT. The Prophet Moses spoke of in Deutenomy 18:15,18 that HaShem would raise up from among His own People like Moses soon after his death was a prophecy that got fulfilled in Joshua if you read Numbers 27:18; and Joshua 3:7; no need to try to apply the policy of Replacement Theology here.

Again, the Messiah was not fulfilled in Joshua and a real fact is he was not born in Bethlehem.
He was born in Egypt ,King James Bible Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

You have excuses like replacement theology but you know only the Messiah would give you the final truth.
So we can see that Joshua only lead them into the promise land because of the incident with Moses and the rock he struck to bring water. Moses punished not allowed to enter the promised land.

No replacement theology and your beliefs are left wanting as far as the OT especially the books of Moses are concerned. Joshua was not a ruler in Israel who had been from old and from everlasting.

Why have you not asked God to show you the truth?
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Again, the Messiah was not fulfilled in Joshua and a real fact is he was not born in Bethlehem. He was born in Egypt ,King James Bible Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. You have excuses like replacement theology but you know only the Messiah would give you the final truth. So we can see that Joshua only lead them into the promise land because of the incident with Moses and the rock he struck to bring water. Moses punished not allowed to enter the promised land. No replacement theology and your beliefs are left wanting as far as the OT especially the books of Moses are concerned. Joshua was not a ruler in Israel who had been from old and from everlasting. Why have you not asked God to show you the truth?

I have asked already and, He has shown me that the Truth is in His Word which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalms 147:19,20. Joshua could not have been the Messiah as an individual. He died and the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37. He was a Messianic leader with the anointing to finish the mission of Moses. Regarding the Messianic characteristic to be a ruler in Israel, Jesus was never one.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
I have asked already and, He has shown me that the Truth is in His Word which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth if you read Psalms 147:19,20. Joshua could not have been the Messiah as an individual. He died and the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37. He was a Messianic leader with the anointing to finish the mission of Moses. Regarding the Messianic characteristic to be a ruler in Israel, Jesus was never one.

Ben, both you and I, before God know you do not have an argument.

19 He sheweth his word* unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.




We know through Moses God chose the Israelites to give the law too. We know Jacob called Israel and we know the nation Israel was given Gods words. He never gave the words to another nation but it gives no credence to any point you are making.
Joshua was not the Prophet whom God spoke about to Moses.

The Messianic Prophecies Christ did fulfill. Israel the descendants of Jacob were given Gods word through Moses.
But that words fulfilment regarding Prophecy relies no on the people of Israel but the calling of God.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Ben, both you and I, before God know you do not have an argument. 19 He sheweth his word* unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
We know through Moses God chose the Israelites to give the law too. We know Jacob called Israel and we know the nation Israel was given Gods words. He never gave the words to another nation but it gives no credence to any point you are making. Joshua was not the Prophet whom God spoke about to Moses. The Messianic Prophecies Christ did fulfill. Israel the descendants of Jacob were given Gods word through Moses. But that words fulfilment regarding Prophecy relies no on the people of Israel but the calling of God.


Resolution, sorry but, your empty denials without any evidence based in the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach sound like simply verbal juggling of nonsense. As I can see above, you even repeat what I a said in the Tanach then give your personal opinion in the hope that I take your word for it. Wake up Resolution! You don't have what it takes to keep a dialogue based on the Scriptures with a Jew. You have only only one option; to either take a serious step in your life or give up the whole thing altogether!
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Resolution, sorry but, your empty denials without any evidence based in the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach sound like simply verbal juggling of nonsense. As I can see above, you even repeat what I a said in the Tanach then give your personal opinion in the hope that I take your word for it. Wake up Resolution! You don't have what it takes to keep a dialogue based on the Scriptures with a Jew. You have only only one option; to either take a serious step in your life or give up the whole thing altogether!

I believe the proof lies with the fact the Israelites like yourself are waiting on a Messiah to give you the truth that you do not as a Jew have the final truth from God.

Making unfounded allegations such as 'empty denials' only compacts the truth that you have not got anything to support the arguments you make.
If you can show anything I have said which the Word of God has supported not to be true with Gods word then do so,
But we both know you know you do not have the ability or knowledge to do that.

If God needs believes I need justifying he will do it. But can you really face the truth of having everything you believe suddenly become the stark reality it should be in Gods Truth.

Gods word stands up as truth.What you cannot do is make it your own truth.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
I believe the proof lies with the fact the Israelites like yourself are waiting on a Messiah to give you the truth that you do not as a Jew have the final truth from God. Making unfounded allegations such as 'empty denials' only compacts the truth that you have not got anything to support the arguments you make. If you can show anything I have said which the Word of God has supported not to be true with Gods word then do so, But we both know you know you do not have the ability or knowledge to do that. If God needs believes I need justifying he will do it. But can you really face the truth of having everything you believe suddenly become the stark reality it should be in Gods Truth. Gods word stands up as truth.What you cannot do is make it your own truth.

See what I mean? I have told you over and over again that I don't believe in an individual Messiah and you say above that the fact is that I am waiting on a Messiah to give me the truth. Again, the Messiah cannot be an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
See what I mean? I have told you over and over again that I don't believe in an individual Messiah and you say above that the fact is that I am waiting on a Messiah to give me the truth. Again, the Messiah cannot be an individual. ]/QUOTE]
Therein lies your error. God says singular... I shall raise thee up a PROPHET not Prophets.
What the Jews are waiting for and the ancient jews is obviously something you have no part in,.
So you are not a Jew and no part in the covenant and chosen people of God. That is what you are saying if you do not believe what God has taught.
The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever if you read Jeremiah 31:35-37.
A manmade teaching because it relies on mans ability to put God where he wants him and not have the faith to allow God to be power and exist to do his own bidding.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Therein lies your error. God says singular... I shall raise thee up a PROPHET not Prophets.
What the Jews are waiting for and the ancient jews is obviously something you have no part in,.
So you are not a Jew and no part in the covenant and chosen people of God. That is what you are saying if you do not believe what God has taught.
Jeremiah 31:35-37.
A manmade teaching because it relies on mans ability to put God where he wants him and not have the faith to allow God to be power and exist to do his own bidding.

Yes, God says singular; hence He meant Joshua and Biblical History confirms the anointing of Joshua to replace Moses as the prophet like unto Moses whose quotes I gave you in Deuteronomy and Joshua. Check them up! Don't try to push Jesus into the Tanach because he did not classify even as a Messianic leader; let alone the Messiah.[/QUOTE]
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
I know you are doing this deliberately and on purpose. Ignoring and saying something which has not been said.
From now on all will see this in what you write. It will show the inability to actually understand or speak the truth about Gods true word. The Almighty God will allow you to become subject to your own source of confusion you deliberately try and inflict and cause to come upon others. You see people with faith in God allow God to lead them. They are not subject to their own beliefs alone. Those who know God know God can defend his own word and even more so
can reveal the truth to those who seek it. When you choose to seek God in his truth then you will be free from this.[/QUOTE]

Of course I am doing this on purpose! My purpose is based on Isaiah 42:6 where we read that the Lord assigned Israel as light unto the Gentiles. I am only doing my job I have been assigned to. Listen Resolution, every time Jesus referred to as the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. The NT he never even dreamed would ever rise. It means you are wasting your time preaching the gospel of Paul which was the NT.
 
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