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Meeting with God, How is it possible?

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
"Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing." Quran 29:5


How the "meeting with God" would be fulfilled, considering these verses:

"When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me!...." Quran 7:143

"No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." Bible John 1:18
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you don't see God in this world, you will not see him in the next. If you don't see God and Ahlulbayt (a) light, you will not see light in the next world. You will know the truth but not see the light of God's beauty and be totally veiled.

God and Ahlulbayt (a) are in the clear horizon and live within every soul, if people don't see them, it's because they are running away from them towards something else.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
If you don't see God in this world, you will not see him in the next.
You are not talking about seeing God with the physical eye, are you?

firstly, do you believe on the promised day, God comes to earth?

if not, why Quran 39:69 says, "the earth shall shine with the ligth of her Lord"?

If you don't see God and Ahlulbayt (a) light, you will not see light in the next world.
Firstly, is the next world, on earth, or somewhere else? If somewhere else, why Quran says, the Earth shall shine with light of its Lord? Why it does not say Heaven shall shine?

secondly, what do you mean by "Light"? Are you talking about the physical light, like rays of the Sun, or you are speaking metaphor? What is the meaning of light in your view?


You will know the truth but not see the light of God's beauty and be totally veiled.

kindly elaborate these words.
How one will know the truth?

19:39.
"And warn them ˹O Prophet˺ of the Day of Regret, when all matters will be settled, while they are ˹engrossed˺ in heedlessness and disbelief."

This verse says, after Judgement Fay has come, and all matters are settled, still they are heedless. How does this verse is compatible with what you are saying?
God and Ahlulbayt (a) are in the clear horizon and live within every soul, if people don't see them, it's because they are running away from them towards something else.
Are you fasting nowadays, and going to Mosques these days? Seems like you are listening to alot of Mambars.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are not talking about seeing God with the physical eye, are you?
No.
This verse says, after Judgement Fay has come, and all matters are settled, still they are heedless. How does this verse is compatible with what you are saying?
If you bring an argument you brought in the past again one more time that we've discussed in details, I promise God and my soul, I will block you.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How one will know the truth?
The Quran describes it, the earth is flattened (no mountains means it will be totally flat), and per Quran, disbelievers won't be allowed to offer excuses or lead astray, they can whisper to each other but that's about it, and so the signs in terms of miracles when manifested with the explanation, it will become clear when falsehood is stamped out and false speakers not allowed to lead astray.

Otherwise, if they were allowed to speak, they might accuse the witnesses and so and so forth, and argue, but it will be a big process. However, the book of each person will be brought out, and deeds will be shown, and people will know what they committed.

At a point disbelievers will say "peace we did no evil" and have a perception that they are innocent, but that will quickly change, when God will tell them of their evils and that he knows exactly what they did.

However, the Quran shows despite people knowing the truth and becoming certain, they will be veiled to God on that day. This means truth is not what is meant when it says "who is blind in this, is blind in the next and further astray". Because people in the next world know the truth. What it means is to see God's beauty with vision of love. That love that sees God and Ahlulbayt (a) in the spiritual horizons and spiritual sky, it will get augmented and reward on the last day. However, disbelievers knowing God is the truth, will be furthered and more distant from him, and can't see God by vision of love. It's too late to cultivate that.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
If you bring an argument you brought in the past again one more time that we've discussed in details, I promise God and my soul, I will block you.

This is what you had said previously:

We discussed 19:39 many times. And yes the Arabic does mean that no will be able to deny it and there will be no room for denial.

If you dont want to doscuss it farther, fine. No pressure. but I never understood why you said that the verse 19:39 in Arabic says No one will be able to deny it. None of the translations says that.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
"No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." Bible John 1:18
Here is some more from the Gospel of John from the NIV...

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made...​
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God...​
If taken literally, I can see why the early Christians made Jesus God and came up with the trinity. For me, just because whoever wrote this said this stuff, doesn't mean it is true. But, of course, the early Christians and many Christians today do take these verses as being literally true and literally the inerrant, infallible Word of God.

How do Baha'is interpret these verses?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
"Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing." Quran 29:5


How the "meeting with God" would be fulfilled, considering these verses:

"When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me!...." Quran 7:143

"No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." Bible John 1:18

I can converse with someone on a phone without seeing them.
Not saying God called Moses on a telephone but sometimes you got to think outside of the box.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
How do Baha'is interpret these verses?

Bahais interpret it same as Jesus:

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9

It is clear that, therefore if the Quran is revealed by the same God who sent Jesus, Meeting with God means, meeting with Christ when He returns.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
"Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing." Quran 29:5


How the "meeting with God" would be fulfilled, considering these verses:

"When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me!...." Quran 7:143

"No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." Bible John 1:18
If you haven't seen or met a god, then how do you know there is a God in the first place?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you haven't seen or met a god, then how do you know there is a God in the first place?
And this is the words of Imam Ali (a) when asked if he seen God, he says "will I worship what I do not see?"

The Ahlulbayt (a) view is that God cannot be fully seen, but he should be seen still to a great degree with the Soul's vision. The unseen signs and the utmost limit place where Prophets (a) reside and Ahlulbayt (a) are the highest in this regard, are linked to God in a way that you can't really divorce seeing God and those signs and separate between the two "he was two bows or closer still".

The prayers of Ahlulbayt (a) teach us to ask to see God and look towards him, and Imam Jaffar (a) tells one of his companions when asked about seeing God "Don't you see God right now?".
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The beauty of life and the next world is all about seeing God through vision of the soul. To make it about Nubuwa or Resalah is to become blind to one of the greatest teachings of Nubuwa and Resalah.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you dont want to doscuss it farther, fine. No pressure. but I never understood why you said that the verse 19:39 in Arabic says No one will be able to deny it. None of the translations says that.
I didn't say 19:39 says that. Go to that thread and I was talking about the second verse in Surah Waqiah.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Bahais interpret it same as Jesus:

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9

It is clear that, therefore if the Quran is revealed by the same God who sent Jesus, Meeting with God means, meeting with Christ when He returns.
John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made...18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God...
When did Jesus interpret those words in the Gospel of John? Jesus was long gone. The words say the "Word was God" and the Son was "himself God.' What could the early Church leaders think but that Jesus was somehow God. Yet, Baha'is say the Trinity is a false doctrine. So, was this gospel writer wrong in saying that the Son was "God himself"? Was he speaking symbolically? Or did he really believe Jesus was God incarnate?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
When did Jesus interpret those words in the Gospel of John? Jesus was long gone. The words say the "Word was God" and the Son was "himself God.' What could the early Church leaders think but that Jesus was somehow God. Yet, Baha'is say the Trinity is a false doctrine. So, was this gospel writer wrong in saying that the Son was "God himself"? Was he speaking symbolically? Or did he really believe Jesus was God incarnate?
Everytime a Manifestation of God comes, it is the Meeting with God.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God...
If no one has ever seen God, then Jesus cannot be God, since we know from the Bible that many people saw Jesus.

The following translations of john 1:18 have been altered in order to make Jesus into God.
I consider this despicable.

John 1:18
John 1:18 - Bible Gateway

CSB No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.

ERV No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.

CEV No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

NET No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

NIV No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

NLT No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

By altering the translations, the verse ends up making no logical sense at all.
Jesus was either the Son of God or He was the Father (God). Jesus cannot be both the Son and the Father. That is logically contradictory.

The following translations of John 1:18 are correct.

In short, no one has ever seen God, but Jesus, who was the Son of God, has declared God and made God known. Jesus has shown is what God is like.

John 1:18
John 1:18 - Bible Gateway

CEB No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.

KJV No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

NASB No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NCV No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, and he has shown us what God is like.

NKJV No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

NLV The much-loved Son is beside the Father. No man has ever seen God. But Christ has made God known to us.

RSV No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

WE No one has ever seen God. But his only Son is very near to his Father's heart. He has told us plainly about God.
 

nick.f

New Member

Addressing the question of how it is possible for man to have knowledge of a transcendent and unknowable God, Palamas drew a distinction between knowing God in his essence (Greek ousia) and knowing God in his energies (Greek energeiai). The divine energies concern the mutual relations between the Persons of the Trinity (within the divine life) and also God's relation with creatures, to whom they communicate the divine life. According to Palamas, God's essence and his energies are differentiated from all eternity, and the distinction between them is not merely a distinction drawn by the human mind. He maintained the Orthodox doctrine that it remains impossible to know God in His essence (to know who God is in and of Himself), but possible to know God in His energies (to know what God does, and who He is in relation to the creation and to man), as God reveals himself to humanity.



Through theoria (illumination with or direct experience of the Triune God), human beings come to know and experience what it means to be fully human, i.e., the created image of God; through their communion with Jesus Christ, God shares himself with the human race, in order to conform them to all that He is in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness. As God became human, in all ways except sin, he will also make humans "God", i.e., "holy" or "saintly", in all ways except his Divine Essence, which is uncaused and uncreated. Irenaeus explained this doctrine in the work Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface: "the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, Who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself."
For many Church Fathers, theosis goes beyond simply restoring people to their state before the fall of Adam and Eve, teaching that because Christ united the human and divine natures in Jesus' person, it is now possible for someone to experience closer fellowship with God than Adam and Eve initially experienced in the Garden of Eden, and that people can become more like God than Adam and Eve were at that time. Some Byzantine Christian theologians say that Jesus would have become incarnate for this reason alone, even if Adam and Eve had never sinned.

All of humanity is fully restored to the full potential of humanity because the Son of God took to himself a human nature to be born of a woman, and takes to himself also the sufferings due to sin (yet is not himself sinful, and is God unchanged in being). In Christ the two natures of God and human are not two persons but one; thus a union is effected in Christ between all of humanity in principle and God. So the holy God and sinful humanity are reconciled in principle in the one sinless man, Jesus Christ. (See Jesus' prayer as recorded in John 17.)

This reconciliation is made actual through the struggle to conform to the image of Christ. Without the struggle, the praxis, there is no real faith; faith leads to action, without which it is dead. One must unite will, thought, and action to God's will, his thoughts, and his actions. Christians must fashion their lives to be a mirror, a true likeness of God. More than that, since God and humanity are more than a similarity in Christ but rather a true union, Christians' lives are more than mere imitation and are rather a union with the life of God himself:

"If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
A common analogy for theosis, given by the Greek fathers, is that of a metal which is put into the fire. The metal obtains all the properties of the fire (heat, light), while its essence remains that of a metal. Using the head-body analogy from Paul the Apostle, everyone in whom Christ lives partakes of the glory of Christ. As John Chrysostom observes, "where the head is, there is the body also. There is no interval to separate between the Head and the body; for were there a separation, then were it no longer a body, then were it no longer a head."
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is part of a prayer taught by Imam Ali (a) and I think it has over 25 chains for it (it's reached Tawatur level):

My Lord, grant me complete severance of my relations with everything else and total submission to You. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts with the light of their looking at You to the extent that they penetrate the veils of light and reach the Source of Grandeur, and let our souls get suspended by the glory of Your sanctity.
 
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