Me vs Lawrence: Christian prayer/faith is, by definition, a subtype of magic.

[Renji]

Correct me anywhere along the way:

Will God resurrect people?

CC : Yes

Is God a supernatural force?

CC: God is the only supernatural force, the other ones are preternatural. In any case, yes, God is a supernatural force

Can I do anything to ensure that I am resurrected with all this resurrected people?

CC: Why of course you can! You must do Y and X change sin your behaviour and accept Jesus as your personal savior. Remember that you need to confess all your sins and there is also a sacrament(**ritual**) to tak if you are on the brink of dead to ensure that your sins are removed and thus you are in comunion with God and that then he will indeed and surely ensure your resurrection.

You see the sacraments as merely rituals and the power of God as necromancy. That's where the twisting occurs, and yeah, the way you interpret the verses, it seems like it came from Nibiru or the Planet X.

 

[Me Myself]

You see the sacraments as merely rituals and the power of God as necromancy. That's where the twisting occurs, and yeah, the way you interpret the verses, it seems like it came from Nibiru or the Planet X.

I never said mere. The fact that they have actual supernatural forces behind it is what makes them magic.

How do you call a ritual intended to have supernatural repercutions that end up in the reviving of a corpse?

Necromancy.

Given that you have not said in what way the catholic view is different than that, you have not explained anything so far.

 

[Renji]

What christianity or ostriches? If you are talking about christianity, I agree of course

If you are talking about ostriches, I agree even more. Nothing taps into supernatural powers like an ostrich

so we finally agree that Christianity is magic accoding to plain english?

My, you really are confused. I was referring to black magic. Read in context.

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle. (request)
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.(request)
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,(request)
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.


not just "talking". You are asking a preternatural force to spiritualy protect you. If you were doing this with anything not angelic anyone would immidiatly call it magic, the church would surely do so too BTW. They just don´t call it that way when it has to do with their angels, saints and "stuff" because then they couldn´t use "Magic" as a pejorative term.

Heh, you think I'm not familiar with that prayer. It Lols me when people say that it's magic rather than asking the help of St. Michael and the power of God to out throw the powers/influences of the enemy.

 

[Renji]

I never said mere. The fact that they have actual supernatural forces behind it is what makes them magic.

How do you call a ritual intended to have supernatural repercutions that end up in the reviving of a corpse?

Necromancy.

Given that you have not said in what way the catholic view is different than that, you have not explained anything so far.

That's because you don't understand anything that I posted so far. It's as if I'm speaking in Korean or something. And yeah, tell me, is faith and prayer the same or different?

 

[Me Myself]

My, you really are confused. I was referring to black magic. Read in context.



Heh, you think I'm not familiar with that prayer. It Lols me when people say that it's magic rather than asking the help of St. Michael and the power of God to out throw the powers/influences of the enemy.

Your arguments are non existent now

You said it was merely "talking". I was proving you that´s wrong, you are requesting. From the second it is requesting it becomes different than just talking.

It may ol you, but you simply show no distinction to what the oxford dictionary defines as magic with christian prayer. I will keep waiting for your take on the necromancy front. So far you´ve only said that´s no argument without any real factual differentiation.

 

[Me Myself]

That's because you don't understand anything that I posted so far. It's as if I'm speaking in Korean or something. And yeah, tell me, is faith and prayer the same or different?

Not the same exactly. But both are part of the christian magic. One defines the magical power, the other one defines the direction that power will be given.

 

[Renji]

Your arguments are non existent now

You said it was merely "talking". I was proving you that´s wrong, you are requesting. From the second it is requesting it becomes different than just talking.

It may ol you, but you simply show no distinction to what the oxford dictionary defines as magic with christian prayer. I will keep waiting for your take on the necromancy front. So far you´ve only said that´s no argument without any real factual differentiation.

Why are you always confused? Isn't requesting a form of talking...

 

[Renji]

Not the same exactly. But both are part of the christian magic. One defines the magical power, the other one defines the direction that power will be given.

So what exactly are they? It seems that you don't understand everything that I said because of some confusion on the fundamentals of Christian faith. How can I argue with confusion? It's like talking to the wind.

 

[Me Myself]

Why are you always confused? Isn't requesting a form of talking...

Technically, but when you say talking in the way you did, what is generaly infered is to talk about your life. If you merely meant there is voice involved, many magic rituals involve requests bia talking the same that the prayer to the angel. Actually, most of them do.

I was just thinking you meant what appear to me then like the most inteligent thing you could have meant then. Maybe this is the source of my "confusion" ?
Let´s get concrete then.

What is the difference with necromancy. Let´s leave every other specific behind:

Catholicism is centered upon the idea that you will get to be rose from the death if you form a relationship with God (a supernatural force) and fulfill many other ritual requests ("sacraments" ) that carry actual supernatural power to fulfill your desire (be revived body and soul)

So, as defined by the oxford dictionary, you engaging with a supernatural force to affect the reality of your eventually-to-be dead body would mean you are engaging in magic.

 

[Me Myself]

So what exactly are they? It seems that you don't understand everything that I said because of some confusion on the fundamentals of Christian faith. How can I argue with confusion? It's like talking to the wind.

Do you want me to find you the quotes?

You still haven´t answered the necromancy case, so I know you can´t find quotes for that. I would rather we focus in there, but if you will try to descredit me further with this petty tactic, I may as well go look for the quotes. If you don´t feel like arguing anymore, I am fine with it. I am sorry to see that some posts away you stopped actually using arguments and started to just say "it´s not just magic and I lol when you don´t see that" I think it is beneath you. If you don´t have the answers, it is okay to let go the debate. If you just don´t feel like debating, it is also okay to let go the debate. I am reading every word you put here and I am putting actual arguments. You dont wanna do the same anymore, just say it .