Lying about Scripture

[Me Myself]

Nonsense.

I stand in awe of your ability to provide vast and yet organized evidence to support your claims in such a clearminded response.

 

[Katzpur]

I stand in awe of your ability to provide vast and yet organized evidence to support your claims in such a clearminded response.

Sola scriptura prohibits clear-minded responses.

 

[Muffled]

As a matter of curiosity, do you think that it is dishonest to plainly say that Jesus (or another religious leader) said something that they plainly did not say?

As a scholar - and indeed as a human being - I think that it is the greatest offense to lie about the text and thus attribute that content the authority of the religious figure.

For, Jesus said nothing about lesbianism, at least as far as we know. If someone were to say that Jesus condemned lesbianism, that's not merely a misinterpretation of something that is written, but an outright fabrication. And the liar merrily goes about his business giving the divine authority of Christ to the liar's own fabricated views.

So the question is this: is it immoral to lie about a text and use it to harm/ insult others?

This is a profound blasphemy to me and I wonder if I'm blowing it out of proportion.

Yes. Howeveer I have found that people who think things are plain and obvious often do so out of persoanl bias because such things are not plain or obvious to me.

My question is: Who is the sole determiner of truth? For me it is Jesus. Also there are those who interpret harm in a narrow sense instead of understanding the whole picture. For instance there is no doubt that people did harm to Khaddafi but in doing so removed the harm that he was doing to others. In God's eyes that is justified and He does it often.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Also there are those who interpret harm in a narrow sense instead of understanding the whole picture. For instance there is no doubt that people did harm to Khaddafi but in doing so removed the harm that he was doing to others. In God's eyes that is justified and He does it often.

That is a frightening and disgusting theological argument no different from that which defended the burning of Jews.

 

[Muffled]

That is a frightening and disgusting theological argument no different from that which defended the burning of Jews.

I have never heard of a theological argument that justifies the burning of Jews but it would not surprise me if one existed. There seems to be an abundance of self justification. That doesn't mean that all acts are justified in Gods view.

It is well to have a healthy fear of what God can do if one practices evil.

I think eating scorpions is disgusting but there are those who delight in it. I suppose that I have a bias against insects. So the question is: What in particular would my argument have to do with justifying an evil act?

BTW removing Hitler from power so he could not burn any more Jews or take peace from the world seems justifiable to me.

 

[Shermana]

I suppose that I have a bias against insects

I love crickets, especially in chocolate. As an example of "lying about scripture", our own Rabbis (except the Yemenis who actually believe what the text says) said it's no longer applicable to eat insects with jumping legs specifically as scripture mentions, even though it plainly says they're as kosher as cows. Just thought I'd add. Now I'm hungry for crickets...

 

[sojourner]

I love crickets, especially in chocolate. As an example of "lying about scripture", our own Rabbis (except the Yemenis who actually believe what the text says) said it's no longer applicable to eat insects with jumping legs specifically as scripture mentions, even though it plainly says they're as kosher as cows. Just thought I'd add. Now I'm hungry for crickets...

A guy on my high school football team used to eat live locusts before every game...:areyoucra

 

[Muffled]

I love crickets, especially in chocolate. As an example of "lying about scripture", our own Rabbis (except the Yemenis who actually believe what the text says) said it's no longer applicable to eat insects with jumping legs specifically as scripture mentions, even though it plainly says they're as kosher as cows. Just thought I'd add. Now I'm hungry for crickets...

I have a daughter who used to eat ants when she was a child. I wonder if they died on the way down her gullet.

Eating the wrong thing is not an evil act but it can be a foolish act. I scrape off the blue mold on bread before eating it but there surely most be some mold on there that hasn't turned blue yet. I suppose that isn't much different from eating blue cheese though. Sometimes when I eat food past its prime I get a belyache from it. It is foolish on my part but the yankee in me doesn't like to waste food.

 

[Me Myself]

Sola scriptura prohibits clear-minded responses.

where? 0_0

 

[dan p]

The OT only bans male-male relations. There is no concept of "homosexuality", there is no concept of "sexuality", there is only a concept of "defilement' and "ravaging'. Women can't ravage. Two women can't really do much damage to each other.

Also, Jesus DID directly address pedos, he said it's better for them to drown themselves than to "offend" (the word means to "ensnare", which has a few meanings, but "Catch and harm" is one of them) a child.

Hi , and Paul says in Rom 1:24-28 , the Gentiles were given up because of their not retaining God and gave them up to there vile affections , verse 26 , so it includes Men and Women , dan p

 

[waitasec]

manipulation is the refusal to admit to ones own weakness over any given situation, and it ain't pretty...

honesty is transparent...

 

[Me Myself]

Many scholars agree that the scene of the bible about the adulterer was a later fabrication.

Also what says about the resurrection is very disimilar to the language of the rest of the gospels, so according to scholars they don´t seem to have been written by the same authors.

 

[Katzpur]

where? 0_0

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. I will say this about sola scriptura, though... If we are to rely on no source outside of the Bible, it would only stand to reason that the Bible would tell us this. The Bible itself does not make any claims that it is either inerrant or complete. So sola scriptura is not in line with Biblical teaching right out of the starting gate.

 

[waitasec]

In God's eyes that is justified and He does it often.

my question to you is...
how do you know what god sees?

 

[Me Myself]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. I will say this about sola scriptura, though... If we are to rely on no source outside of the Bible, it would only stand to reason that the Bible would tell us this. The Bible itself does not make any claims that it is either inerrant or complete. So sola scriptura is not in line with Biblical teaching right out of the starting gate.

Somehow I read "prohibit" as "promote" don´t know how/why xD

Sorry for that, and yeah I agree.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Very few things we claim to be blasphemous actually are
But taking the Lords name in vain certainly is.
To Put words and ideas into his mouth is just that.....
having said that, some things, though having no evidence to support them ring true because the follow a direct line of thought.
Christianity finds itself in a very different world than that existing at the time of Christ.
It would be unreasonable for the church not to take up positions on new ideas and developments.

However it should not give the impression that it has Jesus' authority on such matters.
Dogma established later by reason and tradition, should not have the same authority as the more direct teachings of Christ. Though there is no direct evidence that Jesus ever said anything.

 

[Shermana]

Hi , and Paul says in Rom 1:24-28 , the Gentiles were given up because of their not retaining God and gave them up to there vile affections , verse 26 , so it includes Men and Women , dan p

Augustine and others (and myself) interpreted 1:26 to refer to "greek style" intercourse among men and women of which men would do "likewise with each other", but specifically not referring to Lesbianism. It's not exactly black and white what he meant, but it appears he was not equating male-male relations with female-female but rather a certain practice between male and female which men are also capable of doing with each other.

Otherwise, you're saying that the "Certain practice" is acceptable as long as its male-female.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

So the question is this: is it immoral to lie about a text and use it to harm/ insult others?

This is a profound blasphemy to me and I wonder if I'm blowing it out of proportion.

But is it a lie? In the example you use I'm pretty sure that the person saying Jesus condemned lesbianism truly believes that he did, and he only neglected to actually say because he didn't know he would need to or may Satan caused those quotes to be lost. If they truly believe this then it isn't a lie, its just a mistake.

I don't believe in blasphemy really but I can totally understand your annoyance with people like this. :yes:

 

[waitasec]

Very few things we claim to be blasphemous actually are
But taking the Lords name in vain certainly is.
To Put words and ideas into his mouth is just that.....
having said that, some things, though having no evidence to support them ring true because the follow a direct line of thought.
Christianity finds itself in a very different world than that existing at the time of Christ.
It would be unreasonable for the church not to take up positions on new ideas and developments.

However it should not give the impression that it has Jesus' authority on such matters.
Dogma established later by reason and tradition, should not have the same authority as the more direct teachings of Christ. Though there is no direct evidence that Jesus ever said anything.

if i may piggy back on your post...
the greatest sin against the self is kidding yourself.
:angel2:

 

[jtartar]

As a matter of curiosity, do you think that it is dishonest to plainly say that Jesus (or another religious leader) said something that they plainly did not say?

As a scholar - and indeed as a human being - I think that it is the greatest offense to lie about the text and thus attribute that content the authority of the religious figure.

For, Jesus said nothing about lesbianism, at least as far as we know. If someone were to say that Jesus condemned lesbianism, that's not merely a misinterpretation of something that is written, but an outright fabrication. And the liar merrily goes about his business giving the divine authority of Christ to the liar's own fabricated views.

So the question is this: is it immoral to lie about a text and use it to harm/ insult others?

This is a profound blasphemy to me and I wonder if I'm blowing it out of proportion.

angellous_evangellous,
What you say about twisting the scriptures is exactly right, but even worse than you imagine. Notice what the scriptures say about that, 2Pet 3:15,16, Rev 22:18, Ps 5:6.
Here is the reason that twisting scripture is so reprehensible. Believing something false can cause a person to lose out on everlasting life. This makes twisting scripture worse than crimes against humanity. A person who kills another, only kills his fleshly body, God has promised a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, but a person who causes a person to lose out on everlasting life, could be an unforgivable sin, Acts 24:15, Matt 12:31,32. The scriptures were written with the help of the Holy Spirit, 2Pet 1:20,21.
Have you noticed what Paul said about Holy Scripture?? Consider 2Tim 3:16,17. Also what Peter said was pointed, 2Pet 1:20,21. ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God, and men wrote as they were carried along by Holy Spirit. It makes no difference which of the Bible writers have written, IT IS ALL TRUE, John 17:17, 1Pet 1:25, Rom 1:16,17.
The word Greek Porneia, means more than adultery or fornication, it means any illicit sexual acts.
God has not changed His feeling about any illicit acts, Lev 20:13, 18:22.
Several writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures wrote about Porneia, Rom 1:24-32, 1Cor 6:9-11, 1Tim 1:9,10, Eph 5:3-6, Gal 5:19-21, Col 3:3-6.
It makes no difference which writer penned the words, the thoughts are God's feelings on the matter. God wants all people to repent, turn around and be saved. Even though a person has homosexual feelings he does not have to give in to them, just as we all have desires that we must constantly fight against, 2Pet 3:9,10, 7.