• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Lucifer and so on.

Sanz

New Member
It's been a while since I read the Holy Bible, or so on related to it, today I watched the TV Series of Lucifer Season 1, and since then there's a mind boggling question to ask. I've never done any research over Lucifer, Baphomet, Lilith, et cetera, in fact, it's been years I've not touched any kind of form that resemble Bibical, so I am kinda lost somewhere in the middle of this discussion, and seek for answer.

Lucifer in the TV Series are potrayed as the Evil Punisher, contrary to the Evil doer himself, and here's the thing. Above and beyond conspiracy theory has been laying around since the birth of Judaism, Lucifer are indeed potrayed as the Evil doer himself, the Church potrays Lucifer as the Evil doer, by claiming someone who's possesed to be named after Lucifer, bloody hell, there's one occassion where someone in the Church got possesed by Lucifer because apparently Lucifer choosed her as his bride. Either way, Lucifer are potrayed as the Evil doer by the society these days, which makes me to think, why?

Why The Fallen Angel himself loved to be hated, after all we know for sure, he's the ruler of the Hell, he punishes who's worthy to be punished, yet he offers a deal to the cluster**** mankind, and of course, again potrayed by the society as not kind, more likely to be the Evil doer, he ask something in return, your soul, perhaps?
Is Samuel got tasked or outcasted by the Father to rule the Hell? There's one lore about The Fallen Angel, Lucifer left the Heaven not by himself, several Angel followed him, and don't ask me why, I don't know, I didn't read the rest of the lore, I don't know why those Angel followed him, because the Father commandment, or loyalty? Once Samuel also one of the brightest Angel in the Heaven, somehow he went to Hell.
There's one part of the TV Series which makes me to think, does he really cut his wings? If so, why? I've a theory, I don't know if it's true or not, doesn't the wings allows you to go to the Heaven? If so, does Lucifer want to go back?
Are those cults are true about Lucifer? Lucifer seems to be very potrayed as a man who loves sex, not only in the movies but also in real life events, in Bandung, Indonesia, there's the Satan Church, I am not sure, but they uses Octopus symbol, and boy, you won't believe it, they loves sex, they embraces it, do you know Children of God? Just like them, their sunday devotions are free sex, of course with different purposes, it was intended for the Satan.

PS: I am not a native speaker, and I know my English is poor, obviously I am struggling to write those sentences, I do really appreciate your time for reading those silly questions, thank you.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Lucifer and Satan are different archetypes--not interchangeable.
 

Sanz

New Member
Lucifer and Satan are different archetypes--not interchangeable.

ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Either way, misconception does happen. Ah forget it. It's a common thing back in Indonesia, we do not differentiate them, anyway in term to clarify, by the mean of Satan Churchs, I mean, Churches that specifically worship Lucifer and its relatives. Thanks bud.

EDIT: Ah, em, sorry mate, I don't mean to offense you, I just realize you're a Luciferan, and the whole differentiate about Satan and Lucifer, in any manner you think, I don't mean to disrepect you or Lucifer himself.

Where do Beezebub and Ol' Scratch fit in?

eh, does they fit there? Aren't they a bit fatty these days? Ah, I see. Doesn't Satan already represent those relatives? [don't mind me, my English wont be sufficient to do jokes, argh]
 
Last edited:

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
Lucifer is the literary archetype of a beautiful and prestigious angel who rebelled against God because he wanted to rule in his own right. After that he was cast out of heaven and became the ruler of hell. "Lucifer" also refers to the Roman god personifying the morning star.

Satan is the Jewish angel who is quite literally "the devil's advocate", sent by God to test the faith of mortals. He's viewed pretty neutrally in the Old Testament, but as more of a villain in the New Testament.

The Serpent is the talking reptile from the Garden of Eden who tells Adam & Eve to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge.

Many denominations view these three beings as the same entity, called "Satan" or "the devil". Islam also has a Satan/Lucifer figure, called Shaytan or Iblis.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Lucifer is the literary archetype of a beautiful and prestigious angel who rebelled against God because he wanted to rule in his own right. After that he was cast out of heaven and became the ruler of hell. "Lucifer" also refers to the Roman god personifying the morning star.

Satan is the Jewish angel who is quite literally "the devil's advocate", sent by God to test the faith of mortals. He's viewed pretty neutrally in the Old Testament, but as more of a villain in the New Testament.

The Serpent is the talking reptile from the Garden of Eden who tells Adam & Eve to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge.

Many denominations view these three beings as the same entity, called "Satan" or "the devil". Islam also has a Satan/Lucifer figure, called Shaytan or Iblis.

Actually there is no Jewish angel called Satan that is "the devil's advocate."

The Jewish Satan was a servant of YHVH.

Lucifer is not actually a name of Satan.

*
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
Actually there is no Jewish angel called Satan that is "the devil's advocate."

The Jewish Satan was a servant of YHVH.

Lucifer is not actually a name of Satan.

*

I was referring to the idiom "devil's advocate" - someone who deliberately takes the unpopular or disagreeable side of in a debate in order to provoke more discussion. It was kind of a pun.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Isaiah 14:12 actually says something like -

How thou has fallen from the heights Bright Morning Star (hêylêl,) Son of the Dawn, cut down to the ground, who forced into submission the nations.

It is talking about a King of Babylon and the Babylonian Kingdom. No Satan.

*
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Are those cults are true about Lucifer?
Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, He is not mentioned anywhere in the Christian bible.
Lucifer is a pre-Christian deity of ancient Roman and Greek mythology. He is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.E.
The title Lucifer was used for the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar as well as Jesus himself.
This title however is directly associated with the Morning Star which appears even earlier in Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.
 

Sanz

New Member
Lucifer is the literary archetype of a beautiful and prestigious angel who rebelled against God because he wanted to rule in his own right. After that he was cast out of heaven and became the ruler of hell. "Lucifer" also refers to the Roman god personifying the morning star.

Satan is the Jewish angel who is quite literally "the devil's advocate", sent by God to test the faith of mortals. He's viewed pretty neutrally in the Old Testament, but as more of a villain in the New Testament.

The Serpent is the talking reptile from the Garden of Eden who tells Adam & Eve to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge.

Many denominations view these three beings as the same entity, called "Satan" or "the devil". Islam also has a Satan/Lucifer figure, called Shaytan or Iblis.

Ou. Thank you. Anyway, according to EtuMalku, Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, and so on.

[based on Wikipedia] In later Christian tradition came to use the Lation word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name for the devil.

Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, He is not mentioned anywhere in the Christian bible.
Lucifer is a pre-Christian deity of ancient Roman and Greek mythology. He is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.E.
The title Lucifer was used for the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar as well as Jesus himself.
This title however is directly associated with the Morning Star which appears even earlier in Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.

Therefore,
Lucifer is simply just a pre-Christian mythology. The terms accordingly that was used is "the morning star".

Actually there is no Jewish angel called Satan that is "the devil's advocate."

The Jewish Satan was a servant of YHVH.

That's explains a lot.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
In Buddhism, the Morning Star (Lucifer) is called osadhī tārakā, which means "medicine star," or "healing star." When Buddha was meditating under the east side of the Bodhi tree, he became enlightened upon seeing the Morning Star rise during the third watch of the night. Just as medicine is meant as a cure for suffering, so is the Dhamma a means for the ending of suffering.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelations

Actually the Babylonian King is called hêylêl, - lucifer is a translation, and it is a title, not a name.

It should have been translated into English as Bright Morning Star. Also Light-Bearer.

Jesus in Rev 22:16, is called - The Star ,The Radiance/Brightness of Dawn.

*
 
Top