Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe too much is made of other flood stories. Floods are common. North Carolina had one recently because of 25 inches of rain dropped by a hurricane.
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Localized Flood
- Thread starter IsaiahX
- Start date
I believe too much is made of other flood stories. Floods are common. North Carolina had one recently because of 25 inches of rain dropped by a hurricane.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe one may call something clear but a lack of evidence does not lend to credibility.
I believe Moses received his information from God. He certainly was not an eyewitness. Now if one could find a similar writing by Abraham, Isaac or Jacob or even Joseph I would agree but I have heard nothing of that sort.
Since I consider ALL of those figures to be mythical, I'm not expecting anything substantial.
Instead, how about looking at the archeology?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So you are claiming a worldwide flood.
There would be evidence of such an event and there is none. A local flood would have been very limited in scope.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
To understand why we know your version of The flood did not happen you need to be More specific in your claims.
A world wide flood would have collapsed the planet's ecosystem even more effectively than the Chicxulub meteorite. The planet would not have recovered in a mere 6,000 years.
This was only yesterday.
There is evidence of continuous human habitation, of coral and tree growth through this period. No matter where scientists look, or what they look at, there is no evidence of anything unusual having taken place.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Soil salinity is detrimental to plant growth.
Guff? If you think what the Bible tells is guff, please explain why?
Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:2
God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10
before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Proverbs 8:26-27
To him that stretched out the earth above the waters:"
Psalms 136:6
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep were burst open, and the sky's windows were opened. The rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:11-12
Not floating like ship on water. Floating like heavy item lifted by hydraulic pressure. Water is really good material in hydraulic pressure systems. If can lift really heavy stuff, if water can’t escape, like in the case of the original continent that was stretched above water, as the Bible tells.
Really, and why do you believe that? Because person in white jacket say so and you have no other choice than believe blindly?
Sorry, I don’t believe that. If you ask why, the answer is, because there is no intelligent reason to believe so.
Water has not disappeared. Earth has been compressed more, which is why oceans have gotten deeper, resulting in water level to go down. After the flood, lot of organic stuff was flushed to cavities below earth. In compression it has turned into oil and at the same time, it has lowered the level of earth. Other place is the glaciers.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
The bible is a collection of folk tales, religious and tribal propaganda, and a bit of nifty poetry.
In any case, your nonsense is not found in the bible. It has been cooked up by frauds.
The Bible's inconsistent, contradictory, and often just wrong. You must be aware of this.
Nice poetry, but what it's actually saying is pretty ambiguous.
This contains no geological information at all.
Again, no real information here. just religious folklore.
Not geology. Ambiguous.
"The fountains of the great deep were burst open" is more poetry than geology. Yours is a personal interpretation.
Six hundred years? Do you really find this plausible?
What evidence is there for all this subterranean water? How would this be explained geologically? Where did all the water go when it receded?
No, because the people in the white jackets are following the actual, empirical evidence. They're considering what's physically possible, they're testing it; comparing it to findings from other disciplines.
The religious are starting from an established opinion, looking for confirmatory evidence, testing nothing.
Why do you doubt this? I don't think you understand the evidence, investigative techniques, consilient evidence or scientific method. blind faith in folklore is not intelligent reason.
The geomorphology of the Earth at this time is known. The amount of water needed to submerge everything has been calculated.
There is not that much water.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Because so many of the fairy tales of Genesis have been thoroughly refuted and to this day those that are ignorant on purpose still swear by those false fables.
Bible is not contradictory or wrong. If you have contradictory interpretation of it, it doesn’t mean it is wrong or contradictory.
Yes.
Because the water is not anymore same way subterranean, we obviously can’t see it. We can see only the results of broken continent and vast sediment formations as the result of the collapse of the original continent and escaped water. One sign of this is the Mid-Atlantic ridge. From there water has flown carried sediments towards Grand Canyon and caused large part of its sediment strata.
And as I think I have already said, water receded when it was collected into the great glaciers, which according to modern science were really vast. After it, earth has been compressed more so that it seems water level has decreased.
Wrongly, because it is based on wrong assumptions.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I see. So interpreting Genesis literally would be wrong. I think that I can agree with you on that.
Oops, I was too optimistic. We know when the Pangaea began to break up. That began roughly 200 million years ago. It was not due to a worldwide flood that never happened. You really should try to learn why we know that your interpretation is terribly wrong.
Sorry, you understood wrongly. If person doesn’t make own interpretations, but reads the text truthfully as it is written and lets Bible explain, then there are no contradictions. When people add own meanings, then they get lost.
How do you know that?
There is no reason to think earth was compressed so that it could not be compressed more. Also, if the flood happened so that it was the original continent that was broken and sunk, it is easily possible that it didn’t go straight to the bottom, but there remained cavities. When the water came top of the part of continent, it begun to compress the continent. And if there were cavities below it, the water could have compressed the earth lower.
Interesting evidence for water that was captured and compressed in earth, evidence for the great flood:
https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2018/03/15/diamonds-study-deep-water-may-exist-lower-mantle/
You believe you know. But there is no way to confirm your belief. And yes, we can calculate, but the world is not same today as it was before and right after the flood. Therefore, you fail.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is clearly wrong. There are countless self contradictions in the Bible. That is why apologists exist. They try to make excuses for the obvious errors in the Bible.
The scientific evidence tells us when it happened through quite a few ways. Would you like to learn?
You really need to take a basic physics course to begin with. And a bit of geology as well. Perhaps some structural engineering would help. What you are proposing is nonsense.
Sorry, but this is massive projection on your part. I can support my beliefs. I can show you how I know. You are the one with mere belief. You believe in a book of myths. Would you like to learn why and how we know that you are wrong?
I believe when I see. I think best you can do is to show some kind of circular reasoning that is based on some great assumption. And for me that is just not enough.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope, that is your flaw. You are not reasoning properly. My knowledge is based upon applying the scientific method. If you wish to lean why we know that you are wrong I will gladly help you. If you wish to remain ignorant there is nothing that I can do except to correct your continual and obvious errors.
And remember, creationists are banned from using the word "assumption" unless they can demonstrate the assumption. It amounts to a breaking of the Ninth Commandment if you can't support your claims.
EDIT: Also without proper training when you see it you will not recognize it. I could give you a single photo that refutes the flood, but since you lack the necessary knowledge it would only look like a pretty picture to you.
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gnostic
The Lost One
The Sumerian Flood story is actually already based on centuries older oral tradition of Ziusudra, before it was written down 24th-22nd centuries BCE.
Floods occurred annually along wither Euphrates and Tigris, which were usually not to severe and that helped with depositing fertile loam (due to erosion of soil, north of mwith irrigating the land, but the legend of Ziusudra was actually based on a real 29th century BCE flood, that was more destructive, and evidences were found in the Sumerian city Shuruppak.
2900 BCE marked the end of Jemdet Nasr period (c 3050 - c 2900 BCE) and the beginning of the Early Dynastic I period (or ED I, c 2900 - c 2750 BCE).
The Early Dynastic period ended with ED IV about 2350 BCE, with the start of Sargon of Akkad, known as Sargon the Great, reign c 2334 - c 2274 BCE. Sargon was founder of Akkadian dynasty and responsible for the Akkadian empire, the first true empire.
The Akkadian period (c 2350 - 2147 BCE) and the 3rd dynasty of Ur (known as the Sumerian Renaissance, c 2047 - 1940 BCE) saw the flourishing of both Akkadian and Sumerian literature. It is around these times that we have literary evidences that oral traditions were transmitted into written literature.
Lots of Sumerian poems were written, including the creation and flood myth Eridu Genesis and the earliest Sumerian poems of Gilgamesh (particularly the tablet known as the Death of Gilgames), which Ziusudra appeared in both.
The thing is the Genesis 10 claimed a number of cities were found in Shinar (Babylonia) and Assyria, by Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah. No such person existed in Mesopotamia.
For instance, Sargon was born in Akkad, a city that Nimrod supposedly built. Sargon was a real historical figure, Nimrod is purely mythological and fictional character.
What you don’t seemed to understand 1213, is that many of Sumerian cities predated Sargon, and some even predated the Sumerian civilization (3050 BCE), like Ur and Uruk, both of which existed 2000 years earlier.
Genesis 10 claimed that Uruk (which some translations of Bible called Erech) didn’t exist until after the flood, but archaeology showed that the earliest settlement of Uruk (referred to as Uruk XVIII) were inhabited as early as c 5000 BCE.
Uruk, like many cities in the Near East, newer settlements on top of earlier settlements.
Throughout the 4th millennium BCE (4000 to 3000 BCE, which are Uruk XVI to III), Uruk was the most important city in Mesopotamia. Temples were built to the goddess Inanna in the Enanna district of Uruk, between 3600 to 3300 BCE. In the Anu district, a stone temple, known as the White Temple, was built on top of the Anu ziggurat.
Furthermore, if there were Noah’s flood around 2350 or 2300 BCE, then there should be evidences of flood stratum and debris in Uruk, Ur, Kish and other cities, dated to the same time. There are not.
Clearly what Genesis say about post-Flood and Sumerian cities are wrong, historically and archaeologically.
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gnostic
The Lost One
Doves can travel as much as 150 miles a day, and that just during daylight hours. That’s still a lot of ground.
Man can only walk about 45 miles in 12 hours.
Pigeons are more robust and can faster and further than doves, so they can travel as much as 500 to 700 in that same hours in a single day).