Liberalism vs Conservatism

[jewscout]

Liberals...conservatives...moderates...whatever

the only thing that really matters to the powers that be is money...not political or social ideology
it's the same garbage you just get to pick a blue or red wrapper...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The nature of Liberalism is to provide people with more choice, including that of promoting Conservatism. Conservatism largely limits peoples choice, including that of promoting Liberalism. Do you think this imbalance means that Conservatism, by its very nature, will "triumph" over Liberalism in the long run?

Gotcha, Fluffy. Liberalism = Good, Conservativism = Bad. Thanks for the unbiased definitions!

In political science, we were taught that, as a rough working definition in American politics...

Liberals generally favor more government control in economic issues (public transportation, medicine, utilities, helping those in poverty) and less control on social issues (gay marriage, abortion, flag burning, gun control, etc.)

Conservatives generally favor more government control in social issues, and less control on economic issues.

Wanting more government control on everything, we have Populists, and wanting less government control on everything we have Libertarians.

But you have to remember, what is 'liberal' or 'conservative' in the United States is not the same thing as what is considered liberal/conservative from a global perspective. Also, you'll note that neither the Democratic nor the Republican party are consistently conservative or liberal (e.g. the gun control issue).

 

[BUDDY]

Society saw what conservatism did 70-60 years ago in Germany and Italy but seems to have forgotten.

I had no idea that my conservative ideas would lead us into fascism and death camps.:sarcastic

Only someone with a horrible handle on the reality of todays political arena, would even try to make a comparison between conservatives in the U.S. today and the fascist dictatorship of Germany and Italy in WW2.

 

[Saw11_2000]

$@#* I might just have to jump from Centrist "Republicrat" to Libertarian.

 

[Loki]

I have a mix of what some people call liberal politics and what other people may call conservative politics. I'm quite a young person, and some of my friends are shocked to see how much I support the Tories. For most young people, conservative politics is a no go area. For me, i like a few policies, although I generally support the lib dems.

Anyhow, the political game is all about looking at the policies, and deciding who to vote for by taking into account all the policies and prioritising. No one party will be a true match to most people's politics, so you've got to choose the closest resemblance.

To me though, politics is a farce, and the one thing I love about Britain is that many people just mock politics, day in, day out. Newspapers are often biased, but publications such as Private Eye really scrutinise all the major politicians on all sides, and I think many British people are happy to admit that politicians are filthy creatures. As one piece of graffitti on an election poster put it "Don't vote - It just encourages the b*stards!"

 

[Yerda]

Only someone with a horrible handle on the reality of todays political arena, would even try to make a comparison between conservatives in the U.S. today and the fascist dictatorship of Germany and Italy in WW2.

I agree. It is irritating to hear calls of 'fascist' every five minutes. Likewise socialists, anarchists, and other radical lefties are constantly compared to the Stalinist regimes that they opposed almost unanimously.

 

[Valjean]

EEWRED, truthseekingsoul -- do you think fascism burst fully formed onto Europe? It developed in small, unnoticed steps, which are now being replicated in the US. Don't hide your heads in the sand. It can happen here.

See link for a discussion: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

 

[BUDDY]

EEWRED, truthseekingsoul -- do you think fascism burst fully formed onto Europe? It developed in small, unnoticed steps, which are now being replicated in the US. Don't hide your heads in the sand. It can happen here.

See link for a discussion: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

WOW!!! Someone took all the regular BS, put it all together in a list of BS and makes it seem like we are all trying to become the next nazi Germany. Now that is some great BS!!!

I actually read it, and threw up a little in my mouth.

 

[Majikthise]

EEWRED, truthseekingsoul -- do you think fascism burst fully formed onto Europe? It developed in small, unnoticed steps, which are now being replicated in the US. Don't hide your heads in the sand. It can happen here.

AND IT WAS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN IRAQ!! Yet you decry our involvment there every chance you get.
lots of sand to hide your head in there.
America bashing has become popular of late and worst of all is the trend for it's own citizens to be at the forefront. Sad.

 

[DrM]

I'll put it the way it appears to be. . . . . .Liberalism is progressive. Conservsatism is regressive. Society as a whole could have made a great deal more progress down through the ages had societies been more liberal.

 

[jeffrey]

I'm conservative, believing the less government intervention into our lives the better. Case in point. My wife home schools. The states are trying to make it harder and harder to do this. They claim that by sticking them in overcrowded classrooms where is is just another number, in which are becoming more violent everyday, he/she will get a better education, even though stats show homeschool kids score higher on tests. Both political parties have changed. Dig up an old speech by John Kennedy or H. Humphry. You would swear they where Republican.

 

[Loki]

I'd love to see less government intervention on personal lives. i don't care about the corporate side of things. i just hope the government can produce ways of regulating large multinationals without inhibiting the smaller companies from entering the market through over regulation.

Unfortunately, the way that things have gone in the UK have been contrary to my expectations. This is one reason why I didn't vote labour.

 

[Fluffy]

WOW!!! Someone took all the regular BS, put it all together in a list of BS and makes it seem like we are all trying to become the next nazi Germany. Now that is some great BS!!!

I actually read it, and threw up a little in my mouth.

*scratches head* are you trying to claim that American government is NOT the furthest right of any developed country?

There are quite a few similarities between Hitler's government and American government. Protectionism and subsidies are probably a major one, invading other countries for personal gain would be another, being strongly capitalist and against socialism would be a third, another would be ignoring the international authority of the time whilst yet a fifth could be seen through the similarities between the SS and the powers given to the state through the Patriot Act.

I will admit that America has not been nearly as successful as Hitler in wiping out unemployment nor in revitalising the economy so I can perhaps see an argument there for why the 2 governments are different.

Just because Hitler was known for 2 things, the genocide and the war, does not mean the rest of his time in power was defined by those 2 things. Facism and current American policy do have a lot in common whether you wish to admit it or not. To me it seems to be pure idiocy to say that 2 far right governments would have nothing in common. Obviously to say that the 2 governments were identical is equally idiotic but to deny their similarities is to demonstrate a lack of understanding about what the right is all about.

Gotcha, Fluffy. Liberalism = Good, Conservativism = Bad. Thanks for the unbiased definitions!

There are plenty of advantages to each of the defintions I gave. If you percieve one to be biased then perhaps that is a reflection of how highly you hold such a value? Are you saying that anarchy, the ultimate Liberal "government" giving maximum choice to the people is the best possible form of government? What I put is the truth. If you believe more choice is inherently a good thing then that is fair enough but I was not implying as such in my original post.

Liberals generally favor more government control in economic issues (public transportation, medicine, utilities, helping those in poverty) and less control on social issues (gay marriage, abortion, flag burning, gun control, etc.)

Conservatives generally favor more government control in social issues, and less control on economic issues.

I disagree. Check out www.politicalcompass.org for the correct definitions if you wish to differentiate between social and economic issues in such a way.

 

[michel]

[PART QUOTE=Fluffy] ........"Check out www.politicalcompass.org for the correct definitions if you wish to differentiate between social and economic issues in such a way."............[/PART QUOTE]

Out of interest, Fluffy, I took the test.

I have always considered my ideas to be on the conservative side; thinking about it, although the result took me somewhat by surprise, I can understand how I have infact changed over the years.

Thanks for the link - very interesting.

 

[Fluffy]

I have always considered my ideas to be on the conservative side; thinking about it, although the result took me somewhat by surprise, I can understand how I have infact changed over the years.

Michel, just from having spoken to you on this forum, I would have been very surprised if your politcal compass had not been left leaning. The things that erroneously often make people think they are on the right are actually social issues which indicate an authoritarian view, not a right view.

I've just realised niceguy already posted a link to that site and I accidentally reposted it! . Sorry! It is a wonderful site though so I'm glad that many people are aware of it.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I'm conservative, believing the less government intervention into our lives the better...

...But you have to remember, what is 'liberal' or 'conservative' in the United States is not the same thing as what is considered liberal/conservative from a global perspective. Also, you'll note that neither the Democratic nor the Republican party are consistently conservative or liberal (e.g. the gun control issue).

I concur 100%! Excellent points.

I guess that makes me more a LIbertarian than either Conservative or Liberal.

 

[Saw11_2000]

YAY!

I'm an economically permissive libertarian!

Economic Left/Right: 7.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Only someone with a horrible handle on the reality of todays political arena, would even try to make a comparison between conservatives in the U.S. today and the fascist dictatorship of Germany and Italy in WW2.

I agree. It is irritating to hear calls of 'fascist' every five minutes. Likewise socialists, anarchists, and other radical lefties are constantly compared to the Stalinist regimes that they opposed almost unanimously.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of you. Well said.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

There are quite a few similarities between Hitler's government and American government. Protectionism and subsidies are probably a major one, invading other countries for personal gain would be another, being strongly capitalist and against socialism would be a third, another would be ignoring the international authority of the time whilst yet a fifth could be seen through the similarities between the SS and the powers given to the state through the Patriot Act.

What international authority? The UN has no authority....it gave that up when the Security Council rejected a resolution to set a time table for cooperation with weaopons inspectors in Iraq.

I'm sorry, but overblown chicken-little comments like these make my eyes roll out of their sockets. I've changed my mind: I don't want to be a liberal anymore.

I disagree. Check out www.politicalcompass.org for the correct definitions if you wish to differentiate between social and economic issues in such a way.

Could you quote which parts of this website I should read, and why I should believe what it says to be 'the correct definitions' relative to American politics? (Note that I did make a distinction between liberal vs. conservative as it pertains to an American and a global perspective.)

 

[Yerda]

There are quite a few similarities between Hitler's government and American government.

Perspective man.

To a right-wing zionist Jew I'm sure there might be plenty of differences.

While, to an anarchist there may be many similarities with 1930s Germany (as there would be with Britain, France, Canada, Japan. Believe me I know many radical lefties and while their concern for society is admirable the comparisons they draw are often arbitrary at best).

Protectionism and subsidies are probably a major one...

You're winding us up right? This is a strategy of any government that can get away with it. Hitler's Germany definitely didn't invent it.

invading other countries for personal gain would be another, being strongly capitalist and against socialism would be a third...

Why single out the US? By these standards every powerful country is teetering on the edge of Nazi fanaticism, and has been for a long time.

I will admit that America has not been nearly as successful as Hitler in wiping out unemployment...

Or freedom of information, the right to speak, the right to be Jewish, the right to march through DC in protest against a war, and although currently the US isn't doing too well on sexual expression it still a good bit safer to hop into bed with a same-sex partner than it would have been in 1930s Germany, no?

Facism and current American policy do have a lot in common whether you wish to admit it or not.

As has every other government in the developed world then. The degree of capability (economic and military) is, for me, what sets the USA apart from the rest of us.

Now if you don't mind I must go hide before the anti-US brigade arrest me....