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Leviticus: Seedbed of NT Theology

Breathe

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
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smokydot

Well-Known Member
Con't from post #280: (also here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2356938-post280.html
angellous_evangellous said:
Here's what I think:
. . .I personally don't think Jesus understood himself as the Messiah.
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Keep in mind that Scripture is verbal. Words signify and safeguard meaning; the wrong word distorts the intended sense.
"God breathed" (2Tim 3:16) the Biblical text in order to communicate his Word, so it was necessary for him to ensure that the words written were such
as did in fact convey it.
The verbal character of God-breathed Scripture is, therefore, the sense of Scripture.

Also keep in mind that "all Scripture is God-breathed" (2Tim 3:16):
---Jesus said Scripture was the Word of God, see ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2299244-post85.html, beginning @ my point (2), following.
---Peter groups Paul's writings with the Scriptures -- 2Pe 3:16 ("ignorant and unstable people distort Paul's writings, as they do the other Scriptures. . .")
---Paul quotes Luke's gospel (Lk 10:7) as Scripture -- 1Tim 5:18b ("The worker deserves his wages," is not in the OT, it is only in the NT, which Paul quotes as Scripture.)
smokydot said:
Here's what I think:

Jesus said (Mt 12:3, 5, 19:4, 21:16) "Have you not read. . .

Mt 1:21 --" She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sin."

Lk 2:11 -- "Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Messiah, the Lord."
[You don't think Joseph and Mary told him these things?]

Lk 24:26 -- Jesus said, "Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?"

Lk 24:46 -- Jesus said, "The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day."

Mt 16:15-17 -- Jesus said, "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

Mt 16:20 -- Jesus warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Lk 4:41 -- Even the demons knew he was the Messiah. So Jesus "rebuked them and did not allow them to speak."

Lk 23:2 -- They led him off to Pilate. . .He claims to be Messiah, a king."

Lk 19:10 -- Jesus said, "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lot."

Jn 3:17 -- Jesus said, "For God sent his Son into the world. . .to save the world through him."

Jn 1:29 -- "John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, 'Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.' "

Jn 3:13, 6:38, 42, 62 -- Jesus said, "I came down from heaven."

Jn 5:36-30, 10:36, 13:3, 16:28 -- Jesus said, "I was sent by God."

Mt 20:28, 26:28, Jn 10:11 -- Jesus said, "I came to die as a ransom for the sins of many."

Mt 9:2-6 -- Jesus said, "I have power to forgive sin."

Jn 5:22, 27, 8:26, 12:48, Mt 25:31-33 -- Jesus said, "I have authority to judge all mankind."

Jn 14:6, 5:25-26, 6:39-40 -- Jesus said, "I am the exclusive way to the Father, I am the source of all life and truth."

I also think you either do not know the NT. . .or you do not believe it. . .or both. . .which automatically excludes you from truly understanding it.

I think you traffic in latter-day heretical novel speculations, 2,000 years after the fact.

I think you are abysmally ignorant of Scripture, and therefore grossly theologically inept.

Jesus said: "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God." (Mk 12:24)

Jesus said: "Go and learn what they mean." (Mt 9:13)

And I say: "Stop darkening the counsel of God without Biblical knowledge, with your gross theological ineptitude, and heretical novel speculations."
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smokydot

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
A great exentialist theologian once said something like (in German), "Even if the name of Jesus were not on the citizen-rolls of Nazareth, it would not shake my faith."
That is, if there were undisputable proof that Jesus never existed, the Christian faith is still a viable and constructive religion.
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These are the guys I was delivered from by the searching light and transforming power of the Holy Spirit.

Searching Light:
1) How can his substitionary atonement for the sin of those who believe in him be "a viable and constructive religion" if it never occurred? . .how absurd is that? . .
this is their idea of "scholarship"?
This view completely focuses on the Christ of faith to the exclusion of the Jesus of history, and possibly even the Christ of myth.
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2) Exclude the historical facts of Jesus life, actions and words and you have no content for this "faith,". . .nor do you have any substitutionary atonement to deliver from God's just wrath on the sin of those who hold this "faith" without content. . .and without content, just what is it they believe? . .how's that for absurd nonsense? . .
absurd nonsense is not scholarship.
Others combine the Jesus of history, Christ of faith, and Christ of myth.
As theologians and churches fabricate their Jesus and Christ - some more constructively than others - they pick and choose from elements of history, faith, and myth in the Christian traditions.
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However, the God-breathed Scripture (2Tim 3:16) of the NT is the only authoritative source for the truth regarding Jesus, the Christ.

And the NT says Jesus the Christ delivers you from the just wrath of God on your sin only through faith in Jesus the Christ and his substitutionary atonement for the sin of those who believe in him (Ro 3:25).

3) Therefore, on the authority of the God-breathed Scripture (2Tim 3:16) of the NT, you can't ignore the "historical" facts of Jesus' life, actions and words. They are the content of Christian faith.

Likewise, the authoritative NT presents Jesus, his life, actions and words as factual, not mythical. . .Jesus is not a myth.
The Jesus of history was THE fact of substitutionary atonement for the sin of those who have faith in him.

Anything else is heretical novel speculation, 2000 years after the fact, without a shred of proof, and which contradicts the authoritative NT reports.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
answer a few questions please

#1 Now,, can you argue that man has not been creating man and women gods and spirits for the last 200,000 years???

#2 Can you show me a remote tribe who does not have made up spirits or gods in any part of the world???

#3 Can you show me any parallels in these remote tribes that would indicate that there god is also your god talking to them in the local language and thus the god figure is sharing the same information with all people????

#4 Can you show me that your hebrew god figure does not have any simularity's with previous pagan religions such as sumerians and egpytions???

#5 The ancient hebrews put more importance on male's then females, does this show in their early writings regarding the god figure????

#6 Do you think all other gods and spirits are made up by the local people of that particular geographic region?
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smokydot

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
answer a few questions please

#1 Now,, can you argue that man has not been creating man and women gods and spirits for the last 200,000 years???

#2 Can you show me a remote tribe who does not have made up spirits or gods in any part of the world???

#3 Can you show me any parallels in these remote tribes that would indicate that there god is also your god talking to them in the local language and thus the god figure is sharing the same information with all people????

#4 Can you show me that your hebrew god figure does not have any simularity's with previous pagan religions such as sumerians and egpytions???

#5 The ancient hebrews put more importance on male's then females, does this show in their early writings regarding the god figure????

#6 Do you think all other gods and spirits are made up by the local people of that particular geographic region?

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Are you asking me? . .I don't know. . .and it has no bearing on the revelation of the Bible.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
smokydot said:
Are you asking me? . .I don't know. . .and it has no bearing on the revelation of the Bible.
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you or anyone else that feels like it.

actually i believe it does, you read it so literally where you want and when you want I believe it is not as historically accurate as you do.

if im right your chasing a myth.

if your right we should all worship the bible differently.

again you help me prove the fiction is deeper then most think because your going against the grain with this post.

since this post has gone in all directions of reality, i thought slipping in some questions i felt should be answered was called for :D
 
S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
you or anyone else that feels like it.
actually i believe it does, you read it so literally where you want and when you want I believe it is not as historically accurate as you do.
if im right your chasing a myth.
if your right we should all worship the bible differently.

again you help me prove the fiction is deeper then most think because your going against the grain with this post.
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What are you saying? . .what does that mean?
since this post has gone in all directions of reality, i thought slipping in some questions i felt should be answered was called for :D
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