Let's talk about unemployment

[Dirty Penguin]

Does anyone believe that everyone who looks for a job is employable?

I think so....depending on the job itself. You may be over qualified to clean toilets, wash cars, cut grass, clean windows or any of the various "Dirty Jobs" out there but some one else, especially in a weak economy, looking for a job is willing to do the work.

I'm surprised no one is addressing my statement that some employees would not even be worth what benefits costs much less any wage.

As an employer I guess one would have to make that determination before or after the person is hired. I've interviewed candidates for jobs and I can tell you I have come across some weird acting people, some unqualified on paper but willing to do the job and some qualified on paper but couldn't do the work if their life depended on it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

60% of the nation misses work regularly or worse? Hardly.

[youtube]u0V2MdklcAE[/youtube]
YouTube - 8000 Floridians ,Homeless in the Woods 2008

Sometimes all we see are numbers and percentages and the few that are on the street corner engaged in illegal activities or the person waiting for a check or food stamps instead of the thousands of cases of those who are legitimately struggling.

 

[cynic2005]

While this is generally true, working hard and well is not a guarantee. In most places there is politics, too. I worked in at Safeway for 5 years and was a part-time manager for about 3 of those. I worked every department at different times, except for meat (since that's specialized). I missed a total of 3 days of scheduled work during that time, and I was generally regarded as a good worker. I was fired because I rubbed the assistant manager the wrong way, and she had pull with the district manager.

I'm not really disagreeing with you; just saying unfortunately it's not always about how hard you work. Sometimes it's about who you know and who likes you.

In my opinion, this is highly accurate. In fact, I would say that social skills and political savvy are just as important as work ethic, if not more important.

Take Einstein for example. He ended up as a patent clerk after graduating (because his professors hated him).

 

[Dirty Penguin]

10 years ago during the tech boom, when unemployment was at record lows, I'd estimate that nearly half of the people I worked with were either underqualifed, or not at all qualified, for their jobs. Not only did this result in lack of productive input by these individuals, but, in fact, it also diluted the productive efforts of those who were hard/smart workers who knew their jobs.

I think, in many industries, higher unemployment probably results in overall better production.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people out there who really aren't qualified to do anything, and really aren't interested in doing anything either.

This I can agree with. My step daughter is 22 but when she was in Junior High I tried finding out what she was talented at and tried to work with her in using her talent to make a career out of it but she didn't. As time went on she didn't have a clue or a plan for her future. She graduated and my wife and I as well as the grand parents offered to pay for her to attend community college so she could transfer over to a university but our plans weren't her "plans" so at the age of she 20 became pregnant. Now I have a beautiful grand child but my step daughter but my step daughter's life is that of a hamster on a wheel going nowhere. With only a HS Diploma, no college and in a really tough and competitive economy she's reduced to working minimal wage jobs trying to support herself and her child and renting a room with friends.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

.
20% are honest hard working people who almost never miss work.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

I hate it when people come to work when they are sick. It is not good for you, the company, or the country at large to spread colds and the flu. People should use their sick time when they are sick.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Just a pet peeve of mine.

I hate it when people come to work when they are sick. It is not good for you, the company, or the country at large to spread colds and the flu. People should use their sick time when they are sick.

Absolutely. I hate this cultural thing that it is somehow admirable to drag yourself to work when your sick, and spread the virus your carrying all over the place.

I know people who never take sick days. People get sick days, yet have been brainwashed into not taking them - even when they're sick. It's ridiculous.

Reality check - your job isn't that important, and you can check Facebook and Twitter from your computer at home.

 

[Magic Man]

Absolutely. I hate this cultural thing that it is somehow admirable to drag yourself to work when your sick, and spread the virus your carrying all over the place.

I know people who never take sick days. People get sick days, yet have been brainwashed into not taking them - even when they're sick. It's ridiculous.

Reality check - your job isn't that important, and you can check Facebook and Twitter from your computer at home.

It depends on several factors. If it pleases your boss that you come in even when you're sick, it can be a good idea, even if you're risking getting others sick. Likewise, if your boss really hates when people call out sick. And it also depends on your sick time. I don't get sick time. I get paid leave, which is used for everything. We are close on all the major holidays, and I even have to use that paid leave time for those holidays. So, if I call out sick, its coming out of my sick/holiday/vacation/bereavement time.

Also, it depends on the severity of the sickness. I almost never get more than a cold, and in the past few years, the colds I've gotten haven't been that bad.

 

[Engyo]

It depends on several factors. If it pleases your boss that you come in even when you're sick, it can be a good idea, even if you're risking getting others sick. Likewise, if your boss really hates when people call out sick. And it also depends on your sick time. I don't get sick time. I get paid leave, which is used for everything. We are close on all the major holidays, and I even have to use that paid leave time for those holidays. So, if I call out sick, its coming out of my sick/holiday/vacation/bereavement time.

Also, it depends on the severity of the sickness. I almost never get more than a cold, and in the past few years, the colds I've gotten haven't been that bad.

I also get PTO, by the way. It also depends on what you are doing, and how much help is available. Sometimes we have an engineering deadline (with significant contractual rewards/penalties attached) and little or no help available to handle the work if I call in sick.Taking 2 or 3 days off, even if somewhat sick, is frowned upon if we're likely to get hit with contractual penalties that can run into the millions.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

It depends on several factors. If it pleases your boss that you come in even when you're sick, it can be a good idea, even if you're risking getting others sick.

Also, it depends on the severity of the sickness. I almost never get more than a cold, and in the past few years, the colds I've gotten haven't been that bad.

If you are sick you should stay home. I am not talking about the sniffles. It's a public health issue. Many old people die even from things like the common cold that turns in to other problems. If it pleases your boss that people come in sick then your boss is unethical.

 

[Magic Man]

If you are sick you should stay home. I am not talking about the sniffles. It's a public health issue. Many old people die even from things like the common cold that turns in to other problems. If it pleases your boss that people come in sick then your boss is unethical.

Please go back and read my post. I'm sorry that some old people die from simple things, but maybe they shouldn't be in such close contact with the general public then.

I'll reiterate. Some people don't get sick time. We just get time off. If I take a sick day, it comes out of the 16 days off I get of time off a year.

And no, a boss who likes his employees to come in even when sick is not necessarily unethical. Obviously there is a line where you shouldn't ever be expected to come in, but we're talking about the acceptable side of that line.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Please go back and read my post. I'm sorry that some old people die from simple things, but maybe they shouldn't be in such close contact with the general public then.

Sorry for the misunderstanding I thought I excluded you by the sniffles comment.

In many cases it disease are spread to them by loved ones who work. Thats he problem the flu is not that bad for someone like me or you but a 3 month old of a co-worker thats a different story.

I'll reiterate. Some people don't get sick time. We just get time off. If I take a sick day, it comes out of the 16 days off I get of time off a year.

That why we need more unions I agree.

And no, a boss who likes his employees to come in even when sick is not necessarily unethical. Obviously there is a line where you shouldn't ever be expected to come in, but we're talking about the acceptable side of that line.

This is the unacceptable side.

In spite of the compelling reasons why we think we ought to go to work while sick with a cold or the flu, or at least do our work at home, there are even stronger reasons why it is wrong to do so.

Here's why: Illnesses like the cold and flu can be spread by physical contact. When we're sick, the people with whom we come into physical contact have a significantly increased risk of coming down with the illness, according to virologists, epidemiologists, and other experts. There is a causal relationship between being sick with a cold or the flu and making others sick by touching them directly or handling an object that they soon touch themselves.

http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/feb2008/ca20080226_173434.htm

 

[Kathryn]

I think this is common sense - if you've got something contagious and you have to work around other people, STAY HOME whether it's out of your PTO or vacation or whatever. How is it right to make others sick just so you don't have to use a PTO day?

Likewise, whether you are contagious or not, if you feel so bad that you simply can't perform - stay home. Your employer shouldn't have to pay for you to sit there with your head on the desk.

I've gone home with a migraine before - I was no good to anyone. I've also stayed home when I've had bronchitis which wasn't contagious, but I sounded so alarming that I am sure my customers would be unsettled by having to work with me.

If you are a good, productive worker, missing a few days legitimately shouldn't threaten your job. In some cases it's the most responsible thing to do.

I am very lucky to work at a place which offers generous vacation AND sick leave. This was the first year I've ever used all my sick time (11 days per year, which frankly I think is excessive) - but I had to have surgery on my achilles tendon so I was pretty much out of commission for two full weeks.

mball, I agree with your earlier post about it also being WHO you know - not just WHAT you know. I refuse to work in a place where job security hinges solely on whether or not your boss LIKES you - but I also think it's important to be diplomatic, pleasant, and a peace maker in the workplace. If you find yourself in a political environment where your job security is threatened by someone who simply is out to get you - DOCUMENT everything - and start sending out that resume.

Life's too short to deal with that sort of crap.

 

[Kathryn]

I think what bothers employers the most when it comes to attendence is LACK OF DEPENDABILITY. In other words, it's not the person who takes a full week off with the raging flu who is in danger of losing their job as much as it is the person who calls in sick one or two Mondays out of every month, or constantly has some sort of "family emergency" drama, or who simply cannot get their act together as a family when it comes to taking kids to the doctor or picking them up or attending their events, etc.

That sort of inconsistency, reactiveness, and casualness about the job is what really ticks off managers - it's not fair to the other workers either.

 

[Falvlun]

10 years ago during the tech boom, when unemployment was at record lows, I'd estimate that nearly half of the people I worked with were either underqualifed, or not at all qualified, for their jobs. Not only did this result in lack of productive input by these individuals, but, in fact, it also diluted the productive efforts of those who were hard/smart workers who knew their jobs.

I think, in many industries, higher unemployment probably results in overall better production.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people out there who really aren't qualified to do anything, and really aren't interested in doing anything either.

I really think focus should be shifted to more vocational or tech schools as opposed to a university degree. Most kids are coming out of college without anything marketable, and just a whole lot of debt. Not everyone is cut out for college, or has true need of it, but it has become almost mandatory to have a degree to get a job that pays more than minimum wage. If these people were funneled into some useful skill that has a job at the end of it, I think that would help out a lot.

 

[Magic Man]

I think this is common sense - if you've got something contagious and you have to work around other people, STAY HOME whether it's out of your PTO or vacation or whatever. How is it right to make others sick just so you don't have to use a PTO day?

How about if I come into work and don't spread what I have? That's the best of both worlds, and generally what I do. You're assuming I'm coming in and making others sick, but that's not the case. Plus, again, I'm sorry, but I'm not taking a day or two out of my 16 I get a year for a cold.

 

[dust1n]

Sometimes all we see are numbers and percentages and the few that are on the street corner engaged in illegal activities or the person waiting for a check or food stamps instead of the thousands of cases of those who are legitimately struggling.

...because they are broke.

 

[Kathryn]

How about if I come into work and don't spread what I have? That's the best of both worlds, and generally what I do. You're assuming I'm coming in and making others sick, but that's not the case. Plus, again, I'm sorry, but I'm not taking a day or two out of my 16 I get a year for a cold.

First of all - I didn't address my comments specifically to YOU - but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Secondly, I have no idea what sort of work environment you operate in. If you can somehow go to work with something CONTAGIOUS (which was the sort of illness I was specifically addressing) without giving it to your customers or co workers, that's fine. But I think it's the height of selfishness to spread a contagious disease to coworkers and/or customers just so you don't have to give up a couple of vacation days.

 

[Magic Man]

First of all - I didn't address my comments specifically to YOU - but if the shoe fits, wear it.

I didn't say you did, but as someone who works when sick, it was addressed indirectly to me.

Secondly, I have no idea what sort of work environment you operate in. If you can somehow go to work with something CONTAGIOUS (which was the sort of illness I was specifically addressing) without giving it to your customers or co workers, that's fine. But I think it's the height of selfishness to spread a contagious disease to coworkers and/or customers just so you don't have to give up a couple of vacation days.

I work in an office. A cold is contagious. It would be the height of selfishness to spread a contagious disease just to not give up a couple vacation days. That's why I don't spread contagious diseases, and I work while sick to not give up vacation days, and so that I can be a good employee.

 

[Mister_T]

I think what bothers employers the most when it comes to attendence is LACK OF DEPENDABILITY. In other words, it's not the person who takes a full week off with the raging flu who is in danger of losing their job as much as it is the person who calls in sick one or two Mondays out of every month, or constantly has some sort of "family emergency" drama, or who simply cannot get their act together as a family when it comes to taking kids to the doctor or picking them up or attending their events, etc.

That sort of inconsistency, reactiveness, and casualness about the job is what really ticks off managers - it's not fair to the other workers either.

I have had multiple "family emergency" drama's througout the year, due to both my parents having cancer and needing multiple surgeries. Thankfully the company I work for (even as bad a company they are) is not archaic enough to hold this against people and do not base dependability based on personal hardships that you may be facing, nor do I think anyone should ever be looked down upon as an employee for having those hardships.

My manager (flawed as she may be) doesn't get ticked off and neither do my coworkers...nor do I ticked off when I have to do it for them when they are sick, have a family emergency or on maternity leave, etc; she/they are always very understanding and finds ways to compensate and finds solutions to get the work done when people are not here for whatever reason, because we are a team and we help each other out. There are one or two people though, that abuse their sick time and we're not always happy when they do that.

 

[Kathryn]

I have had multiple "family emergency" drama's througout the year, due to both my parents having cancer and needing multiple surgeries. Thankfully the company I work for (even as bad a company they are) is not archaic enough to hold this against people and do not base dependability based on personal hardships that you may be facing, nor do I think anyone should ever be looked down upon as an employee for having those hardships.

My manager (flawed as she may be) doesn't get ticked off and neither do my coworkers...nor do I ticked off when I have to do it for them when they are sick, have a family emergency or on maternity leave, etc; she/they are always very understanding and finds ways to compensate and finds solutions to get the work done when people are not here for whatever reason, because we are a team and we help each other out. There are one or two people though, that abuse their sick time and we're not always happy when they do that.

Now, now, I am not talking about PARENTS WITH CANCER. That's a pretty significant, verifiable, and unusual type of "family drama" that, in most midsize and all large companies, is actually covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act (in the US), which allows up to twelve weeks of leave, taken either at one time or intermittently, with full legal protection from possible negative actions by the company.

I am talking about "I've got to take my mom to the doctor" but when you probe, the answers are vague. And then the next week, "My dog has to have emergency surgery," and then the next week, "I have to take my son to the dentist - again - and again - and again" and then the next week, "I have to go to court about visitation rights/my neighbor's fence/my DUI/you name it" -

Some people make such consistently poor choices that their lives are full of drama - and everyone around them has to pick up the slack.

This ERODES teamwork, because people know when they're being taken advantage of. It may take a little while to catch on, but it soon becomes obvious.

THAT'S the type of drama I'm talking about - not parents suffering from life threatening diseases.