Let them come to us.

[Sand Dancer]

You're right trying to "save" a person from a belief system will always come off as disrespectful to their autonomy. Even in North Korea when people go to them with the attitude of "Saving" them from their beliefs it does nothing but come off as insulting and it comes from the assumption people don't have legitimate reasons to believe whatever they believe.

Also atheists have a lot of misconceptions regarding why people believe stuff. If the gods really did everything the mythology says it does not matter at the end of the day. Those stories are more of the culture of the spiritual tradition in my opinion and I don't even think you need to believe them all.

Many, many atheists were once believers.

 

[Brian2]

In my experience it is apparent that many theists don't understand why they believe at all. Many, if not most, theists have adopted a set of beliefs from their social experience and then wear these beliefs as if they are necessary and crucial. Very few can, or are able, to step back from their religious beliefs and examine why they are religious at all. Atheists get along fine without belief, why can't theists?

That's not wondering why I believe, it's telling me why.

 

[CharmingOwl]

Many, many atheists were once believers.

You're right I was moreso talking about my personal experience with certain things. Sometimes people tell me "This mythology/story is impossible so you must not believe that." when in reality I just practice these things because I like them. I used to practice Atheism and I get the general idea as well as the firm non-supernatural worldview many atheists hold. I don't think anything is wrong with it but for me it would create existential dread so I just have to practice something.

 

[Brian2]

That is the case for me, yes.

In the words of the show The Atheist Experience: What you do you believe and why?

I believe the Bible because it seems like the truth to me.

 

[F1fan]

I believe the Bible because it seems like the truth to me.

Kinda like how people refer to serial killers as "he seemed like such a nice guy". Sounds like you have some healthy doubt that the Bible is the truth.

 

[Sand Dancer]

You're right I was moreso talking about my personal experience with certain things. Sometimes people tell me "This mythology/story is impossible so you must not believe that." when in reality I just practice these things because I like them. I used to practice Atheism and I get the general idea as well as the firm non-supernatural worldview many atheists hold. I don't think anything is wrong with it but for me it would create existential dread so I just have to practice something.

Gotcha. I can see that.

 

[Brian2]

Kinda like how people refer to serial killers as "he seemed like such a nice guy". Sounds like you have some healthy doubt that the Bible is the truth.

Where there is faith, there is doubt. Most of the stuff I have heard attacking the veracity of the Bible, when looked into, is not enough to take away my faith however.

 

[F1fan]

Where there is faith, there is doubt. Most of the stuff I have heard attacking the veracity of the Bible, when looked into, is not enough to take away my faith however.

Where there is reason, there is no need for faith.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Where there is reason, there is no need for faith.

Many if not all religious people have a reason why they have faith and belief.

 

[F1fan]

Many if not all religious people have a reason why they have faith and belief.

What we often debate in these discusions is whether the reasons for faith and belief are rational and justified. Having reasons for what we do doesn't imply they are correct, rational, or true. This is the search for truth.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What we often debate in these discusions is whether the reasons for faith and belief are rational and justified. Having reasons for what we do doesn't imply they are correct, rational, or true. This is the search for truth.

Seeking God's truth is different than seeking physical truth

 

[Brian2]

Where there is reason, there is no need for faith.

Is that what you know or what you believe?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't think you. People may find a religion they like but may not practice it because they feel they can't filfill its rules, or because they want to remain atheist as a matter of principle. And I said "find", I didn't say "marry".

This tells me that you don't understand what atheism is.
It's what you default to when you answer 'no' to the question "do you believe in any religions / gods?"

If you believe religion X is true, and then decide not to follow it or worship that god you believe exists... then you are still a believer. Just not a follower.

And if you are a believer, then you are not an atheist.
An atheist doesn't believe. That's kind of the whole thing that defines it.


Hence my analogy of "would you still be a bachelor if you got married?"
What you have here, is a definition problem.

You can't be married AND a bachelor.
Just like you can't be a believer AND an atheist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe the Bible because it seems like the truth to me.

Aka "I believe it because I believe it"

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Where there is faith, there is doubt. Most of the stuff I have heard attacking the veracity of the Bible, when looked into, is not enough to take away my faith however.

Faith.

There you go.


Whenever faith is required to believe something, all lights on my skepticism dashboard are flashing.
It usually means that what is being believed is incorrect.
Faith is not a pathway to truth.

It's what is referred to as "gullibility" in any other context..

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Is that what you know or what you believe?

Know.

The track record of trying to solve problems / answer questions with "faith" as opposed to by rational inquiry and collecting of verifiable evidence, speaks for itself.

 

[Sirona]

This tells me that you don't understand what atheism is.
It's what you default to when you answer 'no' to the question "do you believe in any religions / gods?"[

Just like you can't be a believer AND an atheist.

The original context was "Can you be an atheist and a seeker?" Somebody replied "You can be an atheist with a seeker's mindset". I think you can't be an atheist and a seeker in the same time, because atheism, as you said, is a world-view and thus, a seeking atheist seems contradictory to me. Hence my question if an "atheist seeker" would give up atheism assumed he found a religion that suits him, or whether he would walk on by and sneer at it, keeping up the condescending, smart-*** manner that unfortunately seems to be typical for many atheists in this forum.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Where there is reason, there is no need for faith.

That is false.
All beliefs require faith .. faith that you hold the correct view, for example.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The original context was "Can you be an atheist and a seeker?" Somebody replied "You can be an atheist with a seeker's mindset". I think you can't be an atheist and a seeker in the same time, because atheism, as you said, is a world-view

Atheism is not a worldview and that is not what I said.
What I said was that atheism is what you default to when you don't believe in any religions and/or gods. So it's more like some kind of null hypothesis.
Theism is a worldview.
Atheism is not. Atheists surely have a world view. But by the label "atheist" all you know is that their worldview isn't theistic in nature. Atheism by itself is not a world view.

So yes, you can be an atheist and a "seeker" (if "seeker" means being investigative of religions to see if any of them hold up). You don't need to be a believer to be a seeker. In fact, how could you.... the very fact that you are "seeking", means that you aren't already a believer.

Why would you "seek" answers if you already believe to have answers?

and thus, a seeking atheist seems contradictory to me.

Only because you seemingly refuse to understand what an atheist actually is.

Hence my question if an "atheist seeker" would give up atheism assumed he found a religion that suits him, or whether he would walk on by and sneer at it, keeping up the condescending, smart-*** manner that unfortunately seems to be typical for many atheists in this forum.

I already addressed this.

If you believe a certain religion is true, then you are no longer an atheist.
Regardless if you decide to follow the religion or not. The fact that you believe the religion is true, makes you a theist.

Let's have a mythological analogy: Satan.
According to the story, Satan knows for a fact that god exists, having been in his presence and all...
He rebelled against this god. He is not following said god. Yet he believes he exists.

Satan in that story is not an atheist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That is false.
All beliefs require faith .. faith that you hold the correct view, for example.

No.

For example, I don't require "faith" to believe that if I jump from the Eiffel tower without a parachute, I won't walk away to tell the story.