Legality of Martial Arts and self-defence courses

[Thief]

There are some bad@ss Russian martial instructors, that's a fact.

As for the rest, under worst case scenario circumstances you get jumped and kill the other guy, with witnesses that lie and say you started it.

I'd still rather be waiting to be cuffed than be waiting to be embalmed.

granted

and in prison you can learn the next level up
I've had the dubious 'opportunity' of working out with an ex-convict
sensei would teach any and all

it was like working out with a statue!
that guy was ROCK!

 

[Jumi]

The truth is the vast majority of traditional martial arts are a scam, sold in much the same way religion is sold. Very few of them make you any more dangerous or able to defend yourself than an untrained person.

I'd say a lot of them are not practical, but at least where I live most of them aren't scams. I've heard of McDojos in relation to the English-speaking world though and once read Ashida Kim's book...

With that said though the only endgame to banning them(as a whole, including the ones that work) is the same as banning guns or other weapons; to declaw the population and make them easier to dominate and control by the state, ie "progressive" paradise.

Well here we had a gun ban during civil war time 100 years ago, where civilians found with guns were executed (some 17 year old boys) to be an example because they might be communists. I think it's more correct to say that it's used by authoritarians both left and right.

There are some bad@ss Russian martial instructors, that's a fact.

Soviet military received some training from North Korea, the version of TKD that was adjusted to military usage has quite an influence in their training.

What's your take on Systema if you've heard of it?

 

[Jumi]

no point system.....tag you're it

I like your definition of the art.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

What's your take on Systema if you've heard of it?

You can tell a lot about a system by how it is trained. Any given system where the training doesn't get past drilling with compliant partners, and/or depend on people attacking them slowly in a way no real person ever would(example, aikido. ) in order for their stuff to 'work' is probably bullsh#t.

From what I can tell systema falls into that category.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can tell a lot about a system by how it is trained. Any given system where the training doesn't get past drilling with compliant partners, and/or depend on people attacking them slowly in a way no real person ever would(example, aikido. ) in order for their stuff to 'work' is probably bullsh#t.

From what I can tell systema falls into that category.

There are quite a few that fall into that category. They may have valid roots, but practice only with a willing participant only leads to self delusion.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There are quite a few that fall into that category. They may have valid roots, but practice only with a willing participant only leads to self delusion.

Not to mention some hairy situations. Without getting too far into my history with the martial arts and it's 'community', it bares mention that the false confidence instilled by some of the more phoney balogna "fighting" systems has gotten more than a few people hurt and even killed.

 

[Jumi]

You can tell a lot about a system by how it is trained. Any given system where the training doesn't get past drilling with compliant partners, and/or depend on people attacking them slowly in a way no real person ever would(example, aikido. ) in order for their stuff to 'work' is probably bullsh#t.

There are probably schools of systema that fall into that category as well as most of aikido. Though not all of them are about training compliant believers in their "art". Like you mentioned, same could be said of religions... you will always find exceptions.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There are probably schools of systema that fall into that category as well as most of aikido. Though not all of them are about training compliant believers in their "art". Like you mentioned, same could be said of religions... you will always find exceptions.

Martial "believers" are actually even more devout than religious folk, in a way.

The difference is that one can be empirically tested, and even when the tests come back negative the believers continue to believe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Martial "believers" are actually even more devout than religious folk, in a way.

The difference is that one can be empirically tested, and even when the tests come back negative the believers continue to believe.

Yep, I have seen YouTube videos of more than one peddler of woo find out that there arts don't match up when they face a mixed martial artist or other that actively practices with people that don't believe in him. I hear the followers of a Chinese martial artist are angry not at the fake martial artist that they follow, but rather at the man that proved his ideas just did not work.

 

[gnomon]

Do you believe Martial Arts and self-defence courses should be legal? As we know, much of these have been banned at various times in history by state similarly to weapon bans.

Capoeira developed from slaves practicing martial arts hidden in a dance. Many have heard of Putin practicing Judo in secret, since it was banned in USSR. In the 80s-90s there were religious voices for banning martial arts as something that connects you to the devil.

This is what bothers you?

 

[Thief]

I like your definition of the art.

just to be sure....

we worked the art for muscle memory and control of reflex

so....when we thumped each other....
it was like brothers teaching each other how hard to hit
and how far to twist that joint before it comes apart

we all went home in one piece

sensei took most of the injuries
he would say.....
It's not the black belts you have to be concerned about
it's those darn white belts that use the overkill

 

[Subduction Zone]

just to be sure....

we worked the art for muscle memory and control of reflex

so....when we thumped each other....
it was like brothers teaching each other how hard to hit
and how far to twist that joint before it comes apart

we all went home in one piece

sensei took most of the injuries
he would say.....
It's not the black belts you have to be concerned about
it's those darn white belts that use the overkill

Yep, I can remember sparring with white belts and throwing "softball" punches and having them whack the heck out of my wrists.

 

[Jumi]

This is what bothers you?

What?

 

[Jumi]

Yep, I have seen YouTube videos of more than one peddler of woo find out that there arts don't match up when they face a mixed martial artist or other that actively practices with people that don't believe in him. I hear the followers of a Chinese martial artist are angry not at the fake martial artist that they follow, but rather at the man that proved his ideas just did not work.

There is the idea of face in China. You can win gracefully and leave some face to the other person, if not you make enemies. If it's the same thing we are thinking about, the cause for it wasn't just that "he was proven fake", it's just that in western culture you never care for anyone's face so most of us have no idea what's going on and think it went the same way as if it happened in our own country.

 

[Jumi]

Martial "believers" are actually even more devout than religious folk, in a way.

The difference is that one can be empirically tested, and even when the tests come back negative the believers continue to believe.

There used to be a tradition of dojo breakers, who would challenge those weaker schools, after which most people would leave those.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There used to be a tradition of dojo breakers, who would challenge those weaker schools, after which most people would leave those.

Well, the thing about most traditional martial arts schools as they exist today is they DON'T do the dojo vs dojo 'hongkong rooftop challenges' so much anymore, especially in the west. They tend to segregate and isolate themselves and feed off their own hype for generations, using excuses like 'this style is too deadly to spar' to excuse the fact they never actually test anything in a realistic way.

The advent of mixed martial arts in the 90s through to today has burst a lot of those bubbles, but even still excuses persist.

 

[Jumi]

Well, the thing about most traditional martial arts schools as they exist today is they DON'T do the dojo vs dojo 'hongkong rooftop challenges' so much anymore, especially in the west. They tend to segregate and isolate themselves and feed off their own hype for generations, using excuses like 'this style is too deadly to spar' to excuse the fact they never actually test anything in a realistic way.

I have heard this from krav maga and ninjitsu, but I can't say I'm surprised if it's spread to others as people are becoming more considerate and law abiding these days in western countries.

 

[gnomon]

What?

What?

That this entire thread is ****ing garbage.

Devoid of any actual talk about the various martial arts spanning the various cultures but this thread is talking about a bull**** concept of martial arts?

Seriously.

Seriously.....ninjitsu? A non existent martial art.

Dear god the lack of education.

Just make a ****ing effort already before thinking!

 

[England my lionheart]

I agree, but there have been many times in history where peasants were forbidden to practice martial arts. In my country if you are a skilled martial artist(or even a weightlifter) defending yourself could potentially be a worse crime than the attackers which I always found ridiculous.

Nunchucks or rice flail are lethal weapons in the right hands and a self harm in the wrong hands, my great nephew is a krag maga instructor, I think personally that the martial arts I've done have given me self discipline and only use it if I really had too, I think that's goes for most people so I have no problem with it being legal.

 

[Jumi]

What?

That this entire thread is ****ing garbage.

Devoid of any actual talk about the various martial arts spanning the various cultures but this thread is talking about a bull**** concept of martial arts?

Seriously.

Seriously.....ninjitsu? A non existent martial art.

Dear god the lack of education.

Just make a ****ing effort already before thinking!

You seem to misunderstand this thread 100%.