LDS Missionaries Photographed 'Mocking' Catholic Church

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I hope you don't mind me jumping into the discussion; I have a feeling that not all Mormons would be familiar with the importance that Catholics place on the altar in a Catholic Church.

The missionary holding his hand up with the Book of Mormon I don't really see as that bad. Of course I don't know enough about the situation. If he was tresspassing or in a sacred place that average people aren't supposed to go then I would change my opinion. But if it's not then I don't see anything wrong and I probably would have taken a picture had I been in that situation. But again I don't know if he was tresspassing or in a place average people can't go. It's not like he's mocking a preacher or anything. He's just doing the whole 'preach repentance' pose.

The altar would probably be second only to the tabernacle as the most sacred place in a Catholic church. Catholics treat it with great reverence: normally, people kneel to it as they sit down in the pews, and bow to it if they walk by it. It's not "out of limits" per se, but "average" people normally don't approach it or go behind it unless instructed to by a priest or deacon, and they don't approach or touch it without a purpose, and only then with reverence.

The altar in a Catholic church isn't even used for preaching; it's used for the celebration of the Eucharist alone*, which Catholics believe to be literally the body of Christ. I think that many Catholics would take the missionary's actions as using a sacred object that they believe has a direct, literal connection to Christ as a prop to mock their faith.



*possibly other sacraments as well (I haven't witnessed every Catholic sacrament), but the point is that it is only used for the most solemn and sacred purposes.


... and with that, I'm out.

 

[Draka]

I will just say this: the excuse about them being young doesn't seem right at all. So what that they were 20? We have 18 year olds in the military that are, essentially, representatives of our entire country. We don't like our military acting in a juvenile and mocking way, and we don't expect it or excuse it because of age. I see no difference between expecting a certain amount of maturity and decorum among church representatives as well.

And I know I may not be LDS, but I see no fault in analyzing and criticising the actions of someone in your own church and discussing what should become of them regarding their actions. No one wants some immature pranksters representing them to the public eye. Especially if a group has a shaky public view already. Which it appears that the LDS church has at times due to misinformation and assumptions by those who don't know much about them.

 

[Sola'lor]

That's true and I do respect that part of your answer. However, I do have a problem with the way you describe your feelings towards other churches. I don't think "annoyed" is how President Hinkley would want us to be. Then again, I can't change a person's feelings.

Oh I agree most definatly. I never meant to imply those things wree rioght or that way it should be. i was simply explaining my feelings at the time. I have different feelings now.

But I really did feel that way about other curches during my mission. I definatly didn't feel I should hate other churches. But I didn't feel I needed to be buddy-buddy with them. It was also annoying when people would say, "I was born catholic, I'll die Catholic." One missionary told me he wished he could say to those people, "You were born and idiot, you'll die and idiot." Is any of the right? Certainly not. But I can definatly understand the feelings behind it.

I also don't support your understanding of "silly or strange actions around other churches."

Perhaps I shouldn't have stated it quite like that. What I was thinking in my mind is the revoltos. We'd be walking down the street and in random places there would be revoltos with Mary or Jesus, or Baby Jesus, or Baby John or something in it. I'm sure some missionaries took starnge pictures around them or trhe teaching them the Book of Mormon picture. I think most missionaries respect chrcuhes and places of worship. So sorry for that miscommunication it wasn't really what I intended to say.

These are places of worship, whether they agree with us or not. I'm certain God hears their prayers. The actions of the missionaries don't invite the Spirit - they drive it away.

I agree completely.

I don't remember much strange actions towards members of other churchs or the physcal places themselves. What I remember most is jokes, and stories. It certainly wasn't right but is was a way to relieve stress. Seven hundred and something days of being rejected by people saying, "I was born catholic, I'll die Catholic." and your bound to make a few jokes about the catholic church.

But improper actions around another religion's worship site is definatly not Christ-like. And if it's criminal, should be punished.

I'll go through my pictures and see if I have anyones that could be disrespectful towards another church. I don't think I have any, but I'll check.

 

[Melancholy]

As 9-10ths penguin has said the alter is sacred to the catholic church, just as it would be insulting to go to one of theTemples and mock certain practices that are held there.
Messing with the statues is the same as messing with the LDS statues or a Joseph Smith portrait.
These missionaries regardless of age have put the church in a bad light and insulted anothers religion.
They should be punished for it.

 

[Sola'lor]

I hope you don't mind me jumping into the discussion; I have a feeling that not all Mormons would be familiar with the importance that Catholics place on the altar in a Catholic Church.

The altar would probably be second only to the tabernacle as the most sacred place in a Catholic church. Catholics treat it with great reverence: normally, people kneel to it as they sit down in the pews, and bow to it if they walk by it. It's not "out of limits" per se, but "average" people normally don't approach it or go behind it unless instructed to by a priest or deacon, and they don't approach or touch it without a purpose, and only then with reverence.

The altar in a Catholic church isn't even used for preaching; it's used for the celebration of the Eucharist alone*, which Catholics believe to be literally the body of Christ. I think that many Catholics would take the missionary's actions as using a sacred object that they believe has a direct, literal connection to Christ as a prop to mock their faith.

*possibly other sacraments as well (I haven't witnessed every Catholic sacrament), but the point is that it is only used for the most solemn and sacred purposes.

... and with that, I'm out.

Thank you for that clarification. I certainly didn't understand the sacredness of that alter. I thought it was something more similar to our sacrament table. In that unless it's in use it's pretty much part of the 'stage'(or stand or whatever the front part of the sacrament hall is called). We used to hold Elder's quorum in the Sacrament Hall and we would sit up on the stand and people would sit behind the part used for the sacrament, no problems.

But again thank's for the clarification. I don't view that missionary's actions so lightly any more. I wonder if that missionary even knew what level of sacredness that alter has for the Catholic church or if he thought as I did that it was just like the sacrament table. Not that that is an excuse for his actions.

 

[Smoke]

On my mission I certainly didn't hate the Catholic church but it was on my top five list of annoying things.

Why?


.

 

[Smoke]

Perhaps I shouldn't have stated it quite like that. What I was thinking in my mind is the revoltos. We'd be walking down the street and in random places there would be revoltos with Mary or Jesus, or Baby Jesus, or Baby John or something in it. I'm sure some missionaries took starnge pictures around them or trhe teaching them the Book of Mormon picture.

Shrines and images of Jesus and the saints are considered sacred objects; clowning around and acting disrespectfully toward them would strike a devout Catholic much as fundamentalist protesters' clowning around with Mormon garments strikes Mormons.

 

[Starfish]

I think we can all agree that what those missionaries did was wrong. Any disrespect for other's property and religion is wrong. The LDS Church is handling it correctly, and the guilty should pay for what they did.
None of us here know the details of what happened, beyond the article.

My hope is that two missionaries don't give all the rest a bad name. The vast majority obey the rules and do their best.

 

[DallasApple]

Im thinking it fits in the catergory of a "hate crime"..

Its not only hurtfull to the victims of the mockery..but its an embarresment to the establishment..

Its not the end of the world..but those young men need to do the right thing now..people shouldnt make excuses for them..Im sure they are sweet boys and just acted hateful on that day.They need to humble themselves..admit it..and take whatever punishment thats handed down to them..

I dont think it calls for burning them at the stake though..LOL!!..Im sure they are plenty embarrassed and afraid right now..Im assuming they realized they messed up...

Blessings

Dallas

 

[nutshell]

no i'm not a lawyer; i'm an engineer. i know how to examine a situation and analyze it critically, and i am aghast at your inability to do so. you guys are just like the anti-mormons we are so used to dealing with on the other thread; you just jump on things without gaining a solid perspective for your position by clarifying and understanding the issues involved. i am ashamed of you.

The other thread is still waiting.

I'm aghast that you can't recognize it was wrong, even when the Church itself did.

 

[Sola'lor]

Why?

Just becuase of the fact that when you go seven hundred plus days trying to spread the gospel and getting rejected more often than not by Catholics. It's just sort of a natural frustration with Catholics. Not that it's right by any means. It's just how I felt at the time. If I went out now I would most likely have different feelings.

Shrines and images of Jesus and the saints are considered sacred objects; clowning around and acting disrespectfully toward them would strike a devout Catholic much as fundamentalist protesters' clowning around with Mormon garments strikes Mormons.

I agree definately. I hope I didn't come across as saying a support any of those action. I was just trying to convey that I understand the emotions and experiences behind them. I'm sure I didn't something disrespectful at some time or another. But that doesn't mean I think it's an acceptable thing.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I just got through reading that article on fox, and rushed back here to see if someone else found it.

What really grinds me, is that most LDS members at some time or another have felt the heat of religious intolerance, mockery or belittlement on the back of thier necks, and yet, they go on and do stuff like this, knowing good gosh darn well how it made them feel. Like someone else explained, if the tables were turned and I was to witness a Catholic missionary doing something like that on Temple Square, I think I might cry. Religious intolerance just hurts.

I am glad that the church is handeling this as well as they did. I pray that the public will understand that these two individuals do not dictate that general mannerisms of the church. Unfortunately, that seems to be a constant assumption with other individual cases, so I look at this as just one more blow at the churchs overall public image, no matter how well the church handles it.
What's one more right? It's just a drop in the friggen bucket.

 

[Starfish]

I just got through reading that article on fox, and rushed back here to see if someone else found it.

What really grinds me, is that most LDS members at some time or another have felt the heat of religious intolerance, mockery or belittlement on the back of thier necks, and yet, they go on and do stuff like this, knowing good gosh darn well how it made them feel. Like someone else explained, if the tables were turned and I was to witness a Catholic missionary doing something like that on Temple Square, I think I might cry. Religious intolerance just hurts.

I am glad that the church is handeling this as well as they did. I pray that the public will understand that these two individuals do not dictate that general mannerisms of the church. Unfortunately, that seems to be a constant assumption with other individual cases, so I look at this as just one more blow at the churchs overall public image, no matter how well the church handles it.
What's one more right? It's just a drop in the friggen bucket.

I appreciate this post.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

sorry to be so pessimistic and depressive by the way

 

[zippythepinhead]

We must pontificate and investigate

 

[DallasApple]

Look..they screwed up...they were wrong..they will have consequences..

But anyone worth associating with wont look at you or all LDS and attribute a couple dumb *** kids acting foolish to who you are and what you believe or think its condoned..

At least I wont.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[ohyeah]

one thing you all should really consider. having been a member of the media for most of my adult life(including the network mentioned above), you should know that they almost always get it wrong.

i don't know why they can't get it right. it just seems to be the norm for some reason. it's probably the telephone game thing.

 

[ohyeah]

...

Title:I'm a guy not a chick.




???

dang dude. if i was gay, i swear i would be gay for you. you are hot!

 

[Fluffy]

dang dude. if i was gay, i swear i would be gay for you. you are hot!

That is a picture of Darna .

 

[ohyeah]

That is a picture of Darna .

o.k.

darna dude!

now, are you happy?