LDS Missionaries Photographed 'Mocking' Catholic Church

[nutshell]

exactly.

sure it's probably worthy of an apology, but i think these people are blowing this way out of proportion.

I think you're deflating it way under proportion.

 

[nutshell]

i can't fault them for being young. maybe we should dress them in robes and have them walk around with their heads bowed praying all the time.

Young does NOT equal douche-bag. It's not an excuse.

 

[nutshell]

No, but they wouldn't be in a temple. If they were clowning around with one of our statues or in one of our chapels, I'd be annoyed and they'd be asked to leave; but believe me, we deal with much worse.



Of course they are. It wasn't right and the Church apologized for them. Don't you think this is really over-blown.

That you think we deal with much worse is irrelevant. We're not talking about others and what they do to us. We're talking about these douche missionaries and what they did, which was wrong. It's not over-blown at all.

 

[Starfish]

What I see here in this forum are people who celebrate the opportunity to find fault with the LDS church. What about the thousands of missionaries who work hard, respect other's property, and don't mess up? Did THAT get any press?

 

[Fluffy]

Hey guys,
Just like to say that I am really happy with the way the Church responded to this incident. They were sensitive to other communities and took other people's values into serious consideration. Good for them! I'm glad the LDS Church don't just try and ignore such things or act like they don't matter. Hopefully, more people will judge LDS by this sort of response and not by the actions of these missionaries.

 

[nutshell]

What I see here in this forum are people who celebrate the opportunity to find fault with the LDS church. What about the thousands of missionaries who work hard, respect other's property, and don't mess up? Did THAT get any press?

That's right. A card-carrying, active, calling-holding, home teaching-doing member like me is celebrating finding fault with the church.

This is real simple.

1. There was a news article about what happened.

2. I gave my opinion (which I think was based on fact): They were douche-bags.

3. People make excuses or try to brush it under the rug.

4. I call people out on that.

We must not be afraid to criticize stupidity in the church when we see it. We are only as strong as our weakest link, which, seeing these idiots, makes it seem we're pretty weak indeed. Maybe the missionary standards should be increased yet again.

 

[Starfish]

That's right. A card-carrying, active, calling-holding, home teaching-doing member like me is celebrating finding fault with the church.

This is real simple.

1. There was a news article about what happened.

2. I gave my opinion (which I think was based on fact): They were douche-bags.

3. People make excuses or try to brush it under the rug.

4. I call people out on that.

We must not be afraid to criticize stupidity in the church when we see it. We are only as strong as our weakest link, which, seeing these idiots, makes it seem we're pretty weak indeed. Maybe the missionary standards should be increased yet again.

Fair enough.

 

[Bishka]

What I see here in this forum are people who celebrate the opportunity to find fault with the LDS church. What about the thousands of missionaries who work hard, respect other's property, and don't mess up? Did THAT get any press?

How am I finding fault with the Church?

I applaud their action so far and I hope they do publicize the names of those responsible for these actions.

I'm sure if you sort through the pages and pages in the LDS DIR that you will find plenty of praise towards the Church and the missionaries by myself and other RF members.

 

[Smoke]

They will be held accoutable for what they did. They will pay for repairs and fines and whatever the law requires. What more do you want? Public flogging? If they are guilty of vandalism of a serious nature, they will likely be sent home, ending their missions. This will haunt them for the rest of their lives, which is a much bigger "sentence" than you'd understand.

Being sent home, ending their missions, hardly seems like an appropriate punishment for what are, after all, crimes. Charges being considered include criminal trespass, defacing property, and bias-motivated crime.

But you didn't answer my question. If Catholic adults committed similar crimes in a Mormon temple, do you think sending them home and a sincere apology from their bishop would cover it?

 

[Smoke]

What I see here in this forum are people who celebrate the opportunity to find fault with the LDS church. What about the thousands of missionaries who work hard, respect other's property, and don't mess up? Did THAT get any press?

I think it's more likely that Bishka posted this not to find fault with the LDS Church but because she thinks that for missionaries to behave in this way isn't just an offense against the victims, but also against the Church they represent.

 

[Bishka]

I think it's more likely that Bishka posted this not to find fault with the LDS Church but because she thinks that for missionaries to behave in this way isn't just an offense against the victims, but also against the Church they represent.

At least someone gets it.

 

[Sola'lor]

Hmmm. Interesting. I guess I don't know enough about it. Were they actually tresspassing on the property or is it one of those places anyone can go in?

I think the pictures were in order order of worsness(if that's a word). The one about the missionaries pretending the sacrifice is probably the worse. Firstly the missionaries weren't behaving with quiet diginity. But it's even more wrong considering it is a sacred site. And criminal if it was tresspassing.

The one of the missionary holding the head I would consider to be vandalism. Possibly tresspassing but I don't really know. It's horrible as well considering it's probbly a sacred thing not to mention an artifact.

The missionary holding his hand up with the Book of Mormon I don't really see as that bad. Of course I don't know enough about the situation. If he was tresspassing or in a sacred place that average people aren't supposed to go then I would change my opinion. But if it's not then I don't see anything wrong and I probably would have taken a picture had I been in that situation. But again I don't know if he was tresspassing or in a place average people can't go. It's not like he's mocking a preacher or anything. He's just doing the whole 'preach repentance' pose.

I can certainly understand the actions of the missionaries but that doesn't excuse them. They should have behaved in a manner respectful of the places they were in. And in those cases where they trespassed or vandalized I would certainly support punishment by the law.

I probably have some pictures of me acting silly on my mission. But I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything on a sacred site. In my first area there was a Catholic church that had a double arches over the main entry gate. I wanted to take a picture of it and then photoshop a McDonalds sign in there. If I had done that would it have been disrepectful? I don't know. I would have thought it was funny. Would it have been vandalizing or criminal? Definatly not.

But I can definatly understand getting strange pistures at or around various churches. On my mission I certainly didn't hate the Catholic church but it was on my top five list of annoying things. Sharing that list was also the Iglesia Ni Cristo church. So I can certainly understand strange or silly actions around different churches. But definatly not vandalism.

For my as a missionary my purpose was not to have good relations with other churches. It was to bring the gospel so they would leave their false churches and come to the true church. It's not trhe most interfaith friendly statement but that's pretty much what it cames down to. The catholic church and other churches weren't viewd as the 'enemy' but they were viewed as the opposition.

Also one thing I nocticed and even contibuted to is that missionaries aren't the angels the church views them as. Missionaries were some of the most crazy bunch I knew. I remember many a groin kick during morning prayers. Or farting and having launghing fits during prayers. I remember many other crazy things that would make most members rethink their views of the missionaries. Not that that makes any of it good or right.

 

[nutshell]

Hmmm. Interesting. I guess I don't know enough about it. Were they actually tresspassing on the property or is it one of those places anyone can go in?

I think the pictures were in order order of worsness(if that's a word). The one about the missionaries pretending the sacrifice is probably the worse. Firstly the missionaries weren't behaving with quiet diginity. But it's even more wrong considering it is a sacred site. And criminal if it was tresspassing.

The one of the missionary holding the head I would consider to be vandalism. Possibly tresspassing but I don't really know. It's horrible as well considering it's probbly a sacred thing not to mention an artifact.

The missionary holding his hand up with the Book of Mormon I don't really see as that bad. Of course I don't know enough about the situation. If he was tresspassing or in a sacred place that average people aren't supposed to go then I would change my opinion. But if it's not then I don't see anything wrong and I probably would have taken a picture had I been in that situation. But again I don't know if he was tresspassing or in a place average people can't go. It's not like he's mocking a preacher or anything. He's just doing the whole 'preach repentance' pose.

I can certainly understand the actions of the missionaries but that doesn't excuse them. They should have behaved in a manner respectful of the places they were in. And in those cases where they trespassed or vandalized I would certainly support punishment by the law.

I probably have some pictures of me acting silly on my mission. But I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything on a sacred site. In my first area there was a Catholic church that had a double arches over the main entry gate. I wanted to take a picture of it and then photoshop a McDonalds sign in there. If I had done that would it have been disrepectful? I don't know. I would have thought it was funny. Would it have been vandalizing or criminal? Definatly not.

But I can definatly understand getting strange pistures at or around various churches. On my mission I certainly didn't hate the Catholic church but it was on my top five list of annoying things. Sharing that list was also the Iglesia Ni Cristo church. So I can certainly understand strange or silly actions around different churches. But definatly not vandalism.

For my as a missionary my purpose was not to have good relations with other churches. It was to bring the gospel so they would leave their false churches and come to the true church. It's not trhe most interfaith friendly statement but that's pretty much what it cames down to. The catholic church and other churches weren't viewd as the 'enemy' but they were viewed as the opposition.

Also one thing I nocticed and even contibuted to is that missionaries aren't the angels the church views them as. Missionaries were some of the most crazy bunch I knew. I remember many a groin kick during morning prayers. Or farting and having launghing fits during prayers. I remember many other crazy things that would make most members rethink their views of the missionaries. Not that that makes any of it good or right.

I find much of your post almost biggoted and xeonophobic, flying in the face of what President Hinkley was trying to accomplish.

 

[Sola'lor]

I find much of your post almost biggoted and xeonophobic, flying in the face of what President Hinkley was trying to accomplish.

How so? I never approved of vandalizm, other criminal actions, or disrespect to the other religions' sacred things.

 

[Father Heathen]

Those LDS missionaries really need to examine their own beliefs before mocking those of others.

 

[ohyeah]

Being sent home, ending their missions, hardly seems like an appropriate punishment for what are, after all, crimes. Charges being considered include criminal trespass, defacing property, and bias-motivated crime.

But you didn't answer my question. If Catholic adults committed similar crimes in a Mormon temple, do you think sending them home and a sincere apology from their bishop would cover it?

no evidence has been produced on this thread or in the articles that they did any of those things. the only thing i have seen is that they have been offensive in their behavior to the catholics. there are alegations, but i see nothing about any maliciousness or vandalism unless picking up the head of a statue is vandalism. you don't know what really happened; you weren't there. re: trespass, many churches are open to the public and i suspect this was the situation here. if something was damaged, you don't know; it could have been an accident due to their carelessness. they may be liable for something like that, but y'all are acting like there was malicious intent which we have no evidence of. you act like you work in the district attorney's office.

 

[nutshell]

How so? I never approved of vandalizm, other criminal actions, or disrespect to the other religions' sacred things.

That's true and I do respect that part of your answer. However, I do have a problem with the way you describe your feelings towards other churches. I don't think "annoyed" is how President Hinkley would want us to be. Then again, I can't change a person's feelings. I also don't support your understanding of "silly or strange actions around other churches." These are places of worship, whether they agree with us or not. I'm certain God hears their prayers. The actions of the missionaries don't invite the Spirit - they drive it away.

 

[nutshell]

no evidence has been produced on this thread or in the articles that they did any of those things. the only thing i have seen is that they have been offensive in their behavior to the catholics. there are alegations, but i see nothing about any maliciousness or vandalism unless picking up the head of a statue is vandalism. you don't know what really happened; you weren't there. re: trespass, many churches are open to the public and i suspect this was the situation here. if something was damaged, you don't know; it could have been an accident due to their carelessness. they may be liable for something like that, but y'all are acting like there was malicious intent which we have no evidence of. you act like you work in the district attorney's office.

And you continue to defend the missionaries even when the Church does not. If you read the article carefully, you'll know that what Midnight said was true: criminal charges are forthcoming.

You're throwing around words like "malicious intent" - do you even know what you're talking about? You seem to be the one trying to act like a lawyer.

By the way, the "Obama against God" thread is still waiting for you.

 

[kai]

good job it for them ,wasnt mohamed they were mocking thats all i have to say. i am sure the catholic church will forgive them

 

[ohyeah]

And you continue to defend the missionaries even when the Church does not. If you read the article carefully, you'll know that what Midnight said was true: criminal charges are forthcoming.

You're throwing around words like "malicious intent" - do you even know what you're talking about? You seem to be the one trying to act like a lawyer.

By the way, the "Obama against God" thread is still waiting for you.

no i'm not a lawyer; i'm an engineer. i know how to examine a situation and analyze it critically, and i am aghast at your inability to do so. you guys are just like the anti-mormons we are so used to dealing with on the other thread; you just jump on things without gaining a solid perspective for your position by clarifying and understanding the issues involved. i am ashamed of you.