LDS and other churchs

[Charity]

you too huh?

What do you mean by, you too huh? I don't believe I understood the comment....

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

The LDS accept what they see as a newer Divine Revelation since the Bible.

And although they don't ordinarily publicize this, in a HUGE difference from most of Christianity (and other faiths), they are in fact polytheistic because they believe that anyone can eventually "become a God" just like the God of Abraham and rule over a universe!

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Katzpur]

Hi!

The LDS accept what they see as a newer Divine Revelation since the Bible.

And although they don't ordinarily publicize this, in a HUGE difference from most of Christianity (and other faiths), they are in fact polytheistic because they believe that anyone can eventually "become a God" just like the God of Abraham and rule over a universe!

Regards,

Bruce

That's a gross oversimplification, Bruce, and kind of misleading besides. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to explain why I say that. I've got to say, though, that it surprises and disappoints me to hear that kind of criticism coming from a member of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Quiddity]

I like to see it like a relationship. Most everybody enters a relationship with very basic expectations. It's just the norm that most people expect you to start off by asking them out and not cheat on them once you do.

Then, as the relationship develops, so to does the expectations and conditions.

This isn't to be confused with feelings.

The analogy being...yes most Christians know one must get baptized, comfirm it (some kind of oath), and live it.

Once you get into the expectations and conditions, there lies the differences.

And we are all supposedly worshipping the same God...Go figure.

 

[inquirer_Jn1717]

What do you mean by, you too huh? I don't believe I understood the comment....

Charity,
Yeah, that didn't come out right. I just meant that i was starting to feel the same "oh, great, here we go again" sense of deja-vu...

Katzpur,
You see, this kind of conversation is frustrating for both sides, and when it comes to this particular topic I've met two kinds of LDS:

There are some who unashamedly own up to the KFD, and other passages in the D&C, and that is a good starting point for a good debate and we usually leave as friends.

Then there are the others who instantly go on the defensive (and definitely with good reason). They will first say that I do not understand a thing, that I'm just plain mean, even an "anti," and then try to explain away the KFD as not binding, and argue that I'm misrepresenting LDS scripture and LDS prophets, etc. Yet they rarely try to explain exactly what they think those passages actually mean, or why some portions of an LDS prophet's teachings are true and some "are not binding."

You have to understand, guys like me will always confront LDS with the KFD because Joseph Smith claimed to be teaching the truth as a prophet. I think it is clear that he intended all LDS to accept his teaching that God was not always God, but a man who lived on an earth once and worked his way "up the ladder" to become a God.

Now here's the irony: what I think your religion teaches is vital to my own belief system and in fact a part of the whole package, just as your deas about mine are for you. This side of heaven, we tend to understand things better by looking at the opposite, and so I often understand my God better when I compare Him with other Gods (Allah or Brahman would be other good examples).

So, where do I have you wrong?

 

[FFH]

Hey, what happened to Wilder, you know, the opening post guy ???



Maybe he's stepped out to do his Home Teaching :angel2: while you guys get all your religious frustrations out.

James 1: 27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[inquirer_Jn1717]

Some people prefer the comic book version of Batman, while others prefer the movie version of Batman, but they're still both Batman.

mmm...not quite what is going on here, at least not in my mind.

I think it's more like this: say the comics portrayed Batman as playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne, but in the movies he was a Teenaged Mutant Ninja Bat, trained by a Rat, who ate a Cat...you get the idea.

The two are of totally different "natures." That's the kind of difference I'm talking about.

 

[inquirer_Jn1717]

...If your church teaches the same gospel as the Roman Catholic Church and as the 30,000+ other Christian denominations in the world today, why do those many, many denominations even exist? They are NOT "the same gospel" and you ought to know it. ...I could name well over a dozen doctrines upon which Catholics and Protestants can't agree, among them whether salvation is by faith in Christ alone or faith in Christ as evidenced by the believer's works.

...That is not to say that we believe that we're the only "real" Christians. We are far more accepting of other Christian denominations than most of them are of us. ... How often do the Latter-day Saints show anti-anybody-else movies to "educate" its members? Sometimes it really irks me to be told I'm not a Christian, but most of the time, I'm getting to where I think, "Why would I want to be associated with such judgmental, self-righteous people?"

I hear you. I've seen protesters with LDS ceremonial marriage attire and/or "holy underwear" hung on a stick like a dead trophy kill. If they trying to win anybody over, they failed miserably and in turn make any other conversations more difficult. I once knew a professor at the Bible college I went to who refused to call himself "Christian" for a similar reason.

When it comes to the Catholics, I am talking about the ones I know. They fully understand that salvation is in Christ, not baptism, the sacrement, or any outward action. Yes I am aware that official Catholic doctrine would require those things for salvation, or sees them as means of administering grace.

And yes, many many of those 30,000+ denominations out there teach totally different gospels. And of those who would preach the same gospel as I do, there is a full spectrum of differences on eschatology (pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib?), hermeneutics, worship music (hymes or hard rock?), spiritual gifts (have you been slain in the spirit lately?) you name it.

But did i say I was speaking for them? Did I say they were all the same and LDS are the only ones who've got it wrong?

Last note:

...whether salvation is by faith in Christ alone or faith in Christ as evidenced by the believer's works.

There is no contradiction here, both statements are true. Changed life, fruit of the Spirit, obedience, etc., are all signs that a person has truly found Salvation in Christ. Now if you are saying that official Catholic doctrine is that "you are not actually saved unless you do it our way" then we'd have an issue here.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,
You see, this kind of conversation is frustrating for both sides, and when it comes to this particular topic I've met two kinds of LDS:

There are some who unashamedly own up to the KFD, and other passages in the D&C, and that is a good starting point for a good debate and we usually leave as friends.

Then there are the others who instantly go on the defensive (and definitely with good reason). They will first say that I do not understand a thing, that I'm just plain mean, even an "anti," and then try to explain away the KFD as not binding, and argue that I'm misrepresenting LDS scripture and LDS prophets, etc. Yet they rarely try to explain exactly what they think those passages actually mean, or why some portions of an LDS prophet's teachings are true and some "are not binding."

You have to understand, guys like me will always confront LDS with the KFD because Joseph Smith claimed to be teaching the truth as a prophet. I think it is clear that he intended all LDS to accept his teaching that God was not always God, but a man who lived on an earth once and worked his way "up the ladder" to become a God.

Now here's the irony: what I think your religion teaches is vital to my own belief system and in fact a part of the whole package, just as your deas about mine are for you. This side of heaven, we tend to understand things better by looking at the opposite, and so I often understand my God better when I compare Him with other Gods (Allah or Brahman would be other good examples).

So, where do I have you wrong?

Okay, Inquirer, I have concluded that I may have misjudged you. It's just that for every "Christian" who wants to actually have a civil conversation with me, there are ten who want to do nothing but bash my faith. After having spent the last fifteen years on forums such as this one, I have learned to be cautious. Sometimes my caution crosses the line and I appear to be cynical -- or worse -- sarcastic. I'm sorry about that. At any rate, I would enjoy a respectful conversation with you in which we could come to better understand our differences and maybe find more common ground than you believe exists. The only problem is that I am going to be out of town from tomorrow morning (i.e. Saturday) until Wednesday evening, so if you do respond and I appear to be ignoring you, it's just that I'm away.

 

[Wilder]

Funny... all this is kinda hard to swallow.
I'm taking it piece by piece as I probably should...I'm learning so much feel free to expand on even the trivial things!!!!:group:

 

[MJFlores]

Actually, there are churches that do "sell" salvation. A perfect example would be the Iglesia Ni Cristo, which require you to offer not only every Sunday, but also every "thanksgiving" (different form of thanksgiving then we think of in America.) Many churches actually require you to "offer" a good majority of your income.This for one is why I left the Iglesia Ni Cristo.

Come on raibeart, you know that when a deacon passes by with the white collection purse whether you give or not.

I've tried it a couple of times.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7