Land of the Free

[kreeden]

I was surfing , and came across this little bit of histroy that I found interesting .

http://www.iwchildren.org/redholocaust/1665message.htm

Considering that the American Bill Of Rights of 1791 states " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof .... " , it makes a person wonder , doesn't it ? Canada and other countries were no better .

I particularly like the part about no one under the age of 50 being allowed to dance ...
.PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT THIS LINK CONTAINS MATERIAL THAT MIGHT OFFEND
Anyway , I thought that http://www.iwchildren.org/plntycps.htm was an interesting site , and wanted to link it here , as it addresses many issues that PW { and others } has brough up .

 

[DreamQuickBook]

America has never been "free", because as a nation of "law" lines are always drawn. Religion is no exception to this. So basically, it comes down to what is accepted by the public and what is not. People are afraid of things they don't understand.

 

[kreeden]

Well , comparativity speaking , the western world is free , for some . But I don't think that it had to do with being afraid so much as not understanding the First Nation's traditions of " giving ", and what one culture viewed as a waste of resourses , both time and material .

But you are correct in that it comes down to what the public will accept Jocose .

BTW , what does LHP stand for ?

 

[DreamQuickBook]

BTW , what does LHP stand for ?

Left Hand Path - I am discovering that because I neither ascribe to "modern satanism" or "theistic satanism", that refering to myself as a Satanists isn't clear.

Left Hand Path

Left Hand Path in the West

Right-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* Belief in a higher power, such as a deity.
* Obedience to the will of the higher power.
* Esoteric belief in the existence of a supernatural mechanism, such as Karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, which causes the moral decisions that an individual makes to be reciprocated upon himself.
* The ultimate goal of having the individual consciousness be absorbed into a greater or cosmic whole.

Left-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* The belief that some people can, by attaining spiritual insight, themselves become akin to gods.
* An exoteric understanding of concepts such as karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, resulting in fluid, rather than strict, codes of morality.
* The belief that the individual self is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not the ego).
* The belief that each individual is responsible for his own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation to reward actions which do not advance one's happiness in this life.
* The belief that the forces of the universe can be bent to one's personal will by magickal means, and that power gained in such a manner is an aid to enlightenment.
* An agnostic view of the existence of deities, or a Platonic view of deities as "first-forms." If deity is perceived as having a consciousness, then all relationships with deity are in the form of a partnership, an alliance which does not require subservience. The prideful deity likes prideful partners.

It's a broad definition and not all of it applies.

 

[kreeden]

Ok , thanks for the explanation .

 

[Green Gaia]

Native Amercian religion was not looked upon as a "religion" and many efforts were made to Christianize the Indians. They weren't deemed "civilized" so how could their religion possibly be? Ceremonies such as the sundance and the Ghost Dance were forbidden because the government feared that these would cause native groups to grow stronger in conviction to fight the white men. Outlawing the religions of the Native Americans was also used to demoralize them, same with taking Indian children away and sending them to schools to teach them how to be white and serve whites. It's all a very disgusting part of our history than any of this was done.

 

[kreeden]

Well , I think that Circular 1665 was more concerned about the tradition of " giving ", as I said earlier . No matter , it still comes down to the same thing .

So , what constitutes a religion ? Are only those religions that the government recognizes as such protected under the Bill Of Rights ? If so , can any religion lost it's reconation ? And if so , how ?

 

[painted wolf]

Thank you Kreeden for posting this... I'm sorry I missed it earlier!
WAO!!

its difficult for people today to conceve of the hardships of eaven the previous generation. We didn't get the 'right' to practice our faith untill 1978.. When congress passed the "freedom of religion act"... the penalty for praying... 30 years in prision!
My people have only had the leagal right to practice our faith since I was already a year old. I'm older than my peoples 'constitutional right'.
Additionally laws were passed to make speaking Native Languages illegal, white run schools (the only schools native children were alowed to attend) punnished, often by beatings, any child who openly used thier own language!!!!
in 1990 the [size=-1] Native American Language Act was passed to help prevent the extinction of hundreds of native languages... most sadly it seems are byond help with only one or two fluent speakers left alive.... [/size]

WE were only made citizens of the USA in 1924!

As a people we still have a lot of work to do in terms of civil rights... There are still a lot of sterotypes out there to fight... rights to 'earn'.

http://www.ericdigests.org/1997-2/antibias.htm
http://www.hanksville.org/sand/stereotypes/

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

heh... just wanted to add that dispite everything the government tried we survived it...
It is a true miracle that our culture still stands and after so long it is growing again. :woohoo:

wa:do

 

[kreeden]

My people have only had the leagal right to practice our faith since I was already a year old. I'm older than my peoples 'constitutional right'.
wa:do

That is what blows me away Painted Wolf . I believe that many non-First Nation People tend to think that these things " happened a long time ago ", so they are history ... Well , often that " long time ago " was just yesterday .

And I repeat , Canada was just as bad , in ways . Different , but just as guilty . Potlash was illegal here until a few years ago . And even today , people tend to keep them rather secertive .

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I also am very glad you have posted this. It's about time the whole truth came to light. The history that was taught to us in school was written by the white man, and from his point of view. They were able to edit out their ugly selves. But the truth always comes out, eventually.

 

[kreeden]

Thank you ES . But any Truth is a very fickle thing . Personally , I'm more interested in understanding ..... and by doing so , form my own Truth , I guess .

 

[michel]

Native Amercian religion was not looked upon as a "religion" and many efforts were made to Christianize the Indians. They weren't deemed "civilized" so how could their religion possibly be? Ceremonies such as the sundance and the Ghost Dance were forbidden because the government feared that these would cause native groups to grow stronger in conviction to fight the white men. Outlawing the religions of the Native Americans was also used to demoralize them, same with taking Indian children away and sending them to schools to teach them how to be white and serve whites. It's all a very disgusting part of our history than any of this was done.

I would not feel any guilt for what your ancestord thought Maize - every single country that has colonized any other - at any time in History - has done exactly the same thing. We humans have had a tendency - historicaly ( I HOPE) (do you think GW heard me?) - to believe that theirs was the right way to do things, especially in matters religious.

I hope you don't mind, Kreeden, I didn't open that link for more than 30 seconds - I remember it from another thread, and I think, personally, that it is disgusting. But that's my view.

 

[kreeden]

Well , the first link is more historyical , But I understand Michel . Truth is , if I had been more awake when I made this thread , I likely would not have made it . I didn't realize at the time that it had quite as much racial language involved .

But I'm not sure that I agree with you when you say " every single country that has colonized any other - at any time in History - has done exactly the same thing. " Not exactly . And besides , even if true , it doesn't make it right .

 

[painted wolf]

In some cases the Ancestors were your parents or grandparents... remember the key date of 1978. I'm not saying feel guilty, but don't forget how fresh some of the wounds are, the healing has only just begun.

This is why it is so important to keep moving forward.

wa:do

 

[kreeden]

There has been many " key dates " in my lifetime PW . Such as 1960 , when " Status Indians " were first allowed to vote in Canada , without having to give up their treaty rights to do so .

This is not " History ". It is happening today , as we move forward . But my concern is that people tend to sweep things under the carpet , so to speak , and forget about them . IMHO , that is why history repeats it's self .

 

[painted wolf]

heh.. sorry I have demonstrated a bit of an American bias on this

Perhaps its because I hear more americans saying that we already 'fixed' the civil rights problems in this country and that many of the 'solutions' arn't nessisary anymore or 'outdated'.

It would be sad to think that our neighbors to the north are acting the same way, but not unexpected.

wa:do

 

[kreeden]

It would be sad to think that our neighbors to the north are acting the same way, but not unexpected.

wa:do

Well , we try . But we can't . As we have a very young Constitution . Although it is based upon the British North American Act , our Constitution was ammended in 1982 , recognizing the Rights of minorities , and the Rights of the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada .

" 35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the
aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and
affirmed.

(2) In this Act, "aboriginal peoples of Canada" includes
the Indian, Inuit, and Metis peoples of Canada. "

Added to that the fact that many Nations NEVER signed any treaty with any government { British , French or Canadian } , the courts do tend to rule in their favor on land issues , treaty rights , even if they have not treaty , and the like .

So right now , both sides are kinda between a rock and a hard place , trying to figure out what terms like " self government " actually means . The First Nations have their Rights , as the courts see them , but the government and industry have the money . Which tends to leaves the average Canadian , Indian or not , wondering what the heck is going on .

But the Nations can not longer be ignored . And they are starting to realize that .

 

[painted wolf]

hmm... Nunavut seems like a step in the right direction... if everyone helps to keep it on its feet untill it can run on its own.
99% of the US congress would suffer anurisms if you suggested such a thing here.

Here the government controls who is and isn't a "real indian" , as a result many tribes/bands will never be reccognized by the government because it would cause them "too many headaches".Knockout

For an idea how most people view US Native civil rights just check out the "Indian Mascots" thread... :banghead3

wa:do

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Here the government controls who is and isn't a "real indian" , as a result many tribes/bands will never be reccognized by the government because it would cause them "too many headaches".
wa:do

I have a great g-ma on both sides that was full blooded Indian. One was Chocktaw, the other Cherokee. But none of my ancesters would sign the 'rolls'. They did not want to be counted in the census as an American. So now, I cannot claim my dreamcatchers as 'Indian Art' I also cannot sell at any Indian Art stores, or in any Indian festival. I have been very frustrated with this. There is all sorts of benefits I could not get like medical insurance and higher education benefits.

I was recently told that the government will now accept DNA test to prove Indian heritage, I have not looked into yet though. I really should. Here is a picture of one of my dream catchers, they are very unique. this one is about 30" long. lousy digital camera