Krishna, virginal birth and desperate attempts at syncretism

[SomeRandom]

So something I’ve recently come across is this Western idea that Krishna was from a virginal birth. Which I think the idea comes from an old Hitchens book attempting to explain that all religions are just rewrites of older religions.
Which I guess kind of has a bit of merit to it. Look at the Ancient Romans and the Hellenistic Greeks, who basically rewrote an older version of their pantheon inherited from the Macedonian Greeks. Seriously it’s fun stuff.
But what I want to know is, I’ve only ever known Krishna as the 8th child of Devaki and Vesudeva (spelling?)
Is there a version where it’s a virginal birth?
The closest I could find was that maybe Lord Rama’s biological mother could have been a virgin at the time of his birth. But that’s the Raymayana not the Gita or indeed the patchwork of the Folklore surrounding Krishna and Balarama.
So I mean I sympathise with the idea of uniting in peace all religions (including the irreligious.) But I don’t know if I like this rewriting of my cultural myths in order to do so. I mean you can point out the tropes, but you should at least be lore accurate.
Am I missing something here guys? Did I just get the wrong end of the stick on this one?

 

[Aupmanyav]

- Vasudeva.
- Mother Kaushalya was the first of the three wives of Lord Rama's father, Dasharatha. Why would she be a virgin?
** To make it clear if it is not: Balarama was the seventh son of Vasudeva and Devaki, elder to Krishna. But as Kamsa was intent on killing all sons of Devaki (since it had been prophecied that her son would kill Kamsa), his embryo was transferred to the womb of Rohini, Vasudeva's first wife (that is how the story goes). Rohini, during the long imprisonment of Vasudeva, was living in the household of Nanda, Vasudeva's friend, in Nandagram (Nanda's village) in Vraja, near Mathura, which was Kamsa's capital.

Krishna country: Govardhana, Vrindavana, Mathura, River Yamuna. Nandgam is north of Barsana (Radha's village), currently Ghazipur.

 

[ManSinha]

Did I just get the wrong end of the stick on this one?

No you did not - I have read weird stuff that says "Krishna was crucified" he most certainly wasn't - he was shot by an archer who mistook his foot for the ear of a deer - that foot had been weakened previously but that is another story

Also what most forget is the Krishna is the ONLY religious figure mythological or otherwise that showed his Universal form to his devotees not once but at three different times - thereby implying that he embodies the entire universe itself - I know of no other religious figure that has that kind of legend around him / her but then I only know so much.

From what I have read there were resurrection myths around Dionysius, Tammuz and some other Greco-Roman figures source and as some admit - if you take the Resurrection piece away - one of the pillars on which Christianity stands is lost .......

 

[SomeRandom]

- Vasudeva.
- Mother Kaushalya was the first of the three wives of Lord Rama's father, Dasharatha. Why would she be a virgin?
** To make it clear if it is not: Balarama was the seventh son of Vasudeva and Devaki, elder to Krishna. But as Kamsa was intent on killing all sons of Devaki (since it had been prophecied that her son would kill Kamsa), his embryo was transferred to the womb of Rohini, Vasudeva's first wife. Rohini, during the long imprisonment of Vasudeva, was living in the household of Nanda, Vasudeva's friend, in Nandagram (Nanda's village) in Vraja, near Mathura, which was Kamsa's capital.

View attachment 39493
Krishna country: Govardhana, Vrindavana, Mathura, River Yamuna. Nandgam is north of Barsana (Radha's village).

See that’s the version I grew up with. I mean I vaguely recall something about a woman who’s virginity was divinely restored in order to marry honourably after getting pregnant by the Sun God. I think that was just a localised folk tale that some elderly uncle told me as a kid. But that’s as close as I can recall as far as virginal shenanigans in the Hindu epics. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems a pretty big stretch to connect the two. I see far more similarities in the Greco Roman Myths than I do with the Abrahamic tales.

 

[SomeRandom]

No you did not - I have read weird stuff that says "Krishna was crucified" he most certainly wasn't - he was shot by an archer who mistook his foot for the ear of a deer - that foot had been weakened previously but that is another story

Also what most forget is the Krishna is the ONLY religious figure mythological or otherwise that showed his Universal form to his devotees not once but at three different times - thereby implying that he embodies the entire universe itself - I know of no other religious figure that has that kind of legend around him / her but then I only know so much.

From what I have read there were resurrection myths around Dionysius, Tammuz and some other Greco-Roman figures source and as some admit - if you take the Resurrection piece away - one of the pillars on which Christianity stands is lost .......

Whoa crucified? Lol even as a kid I’d call out that one. I did hear something about Krishna being resurrected and my first thought was, if you want to connect the whole rebirth thing together why not just cite the Samsara?
I’m not opposed to finding similarities in various traditions. I find myth as a whole a very fun subject. Love the world folktales. But surely you can do so honestly??

 

[Aupmanyav]

See that’s the version I grew up with. I mean I vaguely recall something about a woman who’s virginity was divinely restored in order to marry honourably after getting pregnant by the Sun God. I think that was just a localised folk tale that some elderly uncle told me as a kid. But that’s as close as I can recall as far as virginal shenanigans in the Hindu epics. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems a pretty big stretch to connect the two. I see far more similarities in the Greco Roman Myths than I do with the Abrahamic tales.

That is Kunti and Draupadi, mother-in-law and daughter-in-law. Both had this boon.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I find myth as a whole a very fun subject. Love the world folktales. But surely you can do so honestly?

Yeah, myths have to be interesting otherwise who would remember them. The Krishna myth says that the hunter, Jara, who shot the arrow at the upraised feet of Lord Krishna in Bhalka Tirth in Prabhas Kshetra, was the monkey king Bali of Ramayana. Lord allowed him to have his revenge in another yuga.

Bhalka - Wikipedia (about 4 kms from Somnath)

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Tagging Krishna with 'virgin birth' may be an ISKCON creation.

During the 60s/70s, they had to convert Westerners and it made their job a lot more easier when they drew parallels between Krishna and Jesus or in labeling Jesus as a Vaishnava! It helped Christians to become Hare Krishnas without feeling guilty of giving up their birth belief for Paganism.