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Kirk's not doing well defending creationism

Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I don't think so, not as long as he believes that the safety of his immortal soul depends on believing it.
 
MSizer

MSizer

MSizer
Here's another thing a creationist might ask oneself. If you think that evolution is strongly defended only because those who try to spread god's word should expect to be prosecuted, why then doesn't the general population despise the pope or the archbishop of cantebury and ridicule them on a daily basis? The answer is because despite the fact that many don't agree necessarily with their views, they don't object to faith in rational people leading relatively moral lives. Kirk is not ridiculed because he is a man of god. He is ridiculed because he is an idiot.
 
N

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
Draka said:
I'm beginning to wonder why anyone here is even bothering to try to debate with Man of Faith. He's already said that Kirk is his "kind of guy" and has proven it by holding the exact same inane stance as Kirk and supporting the lying through your teeth methods he uses. Which is worse? Lying through your teeth on purpose to bring people to your idea of "god" or lying through your teeth because you're too stupid and ignorant to know that you're actually lying and you actually believe the crapola you're shoveling? Which is Kirk? Which is Man of Faith? And what does it really take for people like this to really start thinking logically and accepting the truth? Can they? Is it possible at all?
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Great points. I've mentioned it before but the Comforts and the Camerons may not be lying; they may very well be so convinced of their dogma that anythinng that contradicts it is false. If their faith says the speed of light is 777777777 and not 299792458 they're going to go with their dogma no matter what evidence exists to indicate otherwise. Is it lying when they're upfront about how their faith trumps evidence everytime?
But I agree with Draka- debating creationists is more often than not an act in futility. I do so only because it helps hone my debate skills and it's always cool to see what others bring to the thread, but I'm under no illusion that they will consider the evidence and reconsider. Hell, this was a minor miracle to this atheist... :shrug:
 
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N

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
MSizer said:
HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hadn't seen that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just found myself fruballing mickiel! I think the world is coming to an end today.
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It's like looking into the face of YHWH and realizing He was there all along! :p
 
M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
I have a good signature for you evolutionists. "How do you know a Creationist is lying? His mouth is moving". I think that fits in with your worldview. :)
 
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M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Man of Faith said:
I have a good signature for you evolutionists. "How do you know a Creationist is lying? His mouth is moving". I think that fits in with your worldview. :)
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Don't be so hasty, it's possible they believe creationists lie in their sleep or when their mouth isn't moving also. They are thinking lies.
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Man of Faith said:
I have a good signature for you evolutionists. "How do you know a Creationist is lying? His mouth is moving". I think that fits in with your worldview. :)
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But that would be an example of gross generalization, something to be avoided in reasonable debate and discussion.;)
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Man of Faith said:
I have a good signature for you evolutionists. "How do you know a Creationist is lying? His mouth is moving". I think that fits in with your worldview. :)
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Again, there is no such thing as "evolutionists". There are sane rational people who accept the ToE for the fact that it is...and then there are Creationists.
 
MSizer

MSizer

MSizer
atotalstranger said:
I think proper grammar is a necessary requirement for a good signature.
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Not to mention the fact that despite it's truth when referring to creationists like Comfort and Hovind, there's nothing funny about it at all. "Here kids, here's some misinformation, now go be our next doctors and lawyers, and don't forget to vote".
Gee, that's such a laughing matter to me.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
You could at least spell "liars" correctly. :p

Look, no one is saying that Creationists do nothing but lie all the time. What we are saying is that they are lying when it comes to evolution and creationism. Whether they realize they are lying is something to be questioned. It is entirely possible that they are just so deluded in their beliefs that they don't realize they are lying. But it doesn't make the lies any less lies. And it doesn't change the fact that them continuing to spread these lies to children impairs their thinking and reasoning ability. Truth must be advocated for, and if that means exposing Creationist lies for what they are...then that is what must be done.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Man of Faith said:
I have a good signature for you evolutionists. "How do you know a Creationist is lying? His mouth is moving". I think that fits in with your worldview. :)
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That gibes pretty well with my experience.

Tell you what. Name any creationist website you like. I'll find a lie on the first substantive page. If I can't, I'll admit it and frubal you. Are you willing to say I can't, and admit it and frubal me if I do?
 
OmarKhayyam

OmarKhayyam

Well-Known Member
Autodidact said:
That gibes pretty well with my experience.

Tell you what. Name any creationist website you like. I'll find a lie on the first substantive page. If I can't, I'll admit it and frubal you. Are you willing to say I can't, and admit it and frubal me if I do?
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Careful there. ;)

You have the "That's not a substantive page, statement, claim or assertion defense."

Perjury is VERY hard to prove. A 'statement at variance with fact' - somewhat easier. But such a statement is not necessarily perjury.

I think we should be a a little reticent in using the word "lie" with regard to these people.
 
OmarKhayyam

OmarKhayyam

Well-Known Member
Autodidact said:
What word would you like to use?
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For 'Religious fanatic who takes a myth as literal fact?' I'm not aware of single word in English that means that.

I agree this is not easy. Maybe my legal background is coming out but perjury is a very specific thing.

I think you would have a good challenge if it was worded, "A statement at variance with fact that the speaker should know is at variance."

Picky, picky, I suppose. :rolleyes:
 
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