Kemetic View of Reincarnation

[Rainbow Mage]

This thread is to clarify the Kemetic view on reincarnation, because it's come up in threads a few times. Reincarnation is a view that may have existed in ancient Egypt, but it's hard to pin down, because the ancients really didn't say a lot about it. The theory that the ancient Egyptians may have belived in reincarnation is put forth with two assumptions.

1) Sokar was called a deity associated with the opening of the mouth, and also rebirth. The opening of the mouth means when the soul is seperated from the body. Sokar was associated with this act, and he was also called the god of rebirth, but we don't know what rebirth meant to the ancients. It could have meant reincarnation, but it also could have meant we are reborn every day (Zep Tepi).

2) The ba and the ka are two parts that make up the soul. The ka is the individual fleeting soul that makes up a person's personality, while the ba is the higher essence the ka emminates from. If a person is wicked their ka is destroyed forever, but it's never said what happens to the ba, except that the ba is eternal and can never be destroyed.

Going on the above two we can make some pretty well based assumptions. The ancients likely believed in reincarnation on some level, but not as something that will always happen. Also, if reincarnation did happen, the person technically would not be reborn, only the ba would be reborn as a new ka. The ba has no personality. As for Kemetic Orthodoxy's view on reincarnation, we don't have enough evidence from the ancients to make the call one way or the other, so it's allowed for those who want to believe in reincarnation and those who don't

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The ba and the ka are two parts that make up the soul. The ka is the individual fleeting soul that makes up a person's personality, while the ba is the higher essence the ka emminates from. If a person is wicked their ka is destroyed forever, but it's never said what happens to the ba, except that the ba is eternal.

-sinp -

Also, if reincarnation did happen, the person technically would not be reborn, only the ba would be reborn as a new ka.

FWIW, this is along the lines of Theosophical understanding. The personality (Ka) is always dissolved after an incarnation in the Astral nether regions and it is only the essential synthesis of life's experiences that is reintegrated with the Atmic essence (Ba) that endures in the higher spiritual realms until the next reincarnation.

Please note that the Ka does not dissolve immediately on death but may spend considerable 'time' as a 'shell', depending on the quality of the life (the worse the longer), in the Astral regions. The purpose of repeated incarnation is to eventually evolve a sufficiently coherently 'pure' synthesis of 'self' experience, that on reintegration with the eternal Ba, it does not dissolve and an Self aware spiritual entity is created,...and subsequently there is no longer the need for further reincarnation.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

It is my personal belief that one can be reincarnated, but that it does not always happen. My thoughts are that one may be returned in another life when there is more to learn. Once one has learned what they are supposed to, they may earn their way to eternal happiness in The Underworld.

Another theory of mine is that one spends a good amount of time in The Underworld. This may be a reward or a "break." After an unspecified amount of time passes, the person is then reincarnated.

These are two personal theories of mine and not based on any religious texts that I am familiar with.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Fair enough, if not mistaken your present understanding is along the lines of the spiritualists beliefs and others who believe that the personality survives death.

The way Theosophy explains it, since all physical entities have astral counter parts, and the ascended masters have astral light bodies as their densest form, the astral region is full of activity and interaction between the so called living, along with the 'shells' of the dead which are still vibrating with the residual vitality from their last life, and the ascended masters. However any such interaction is quite extraordinary as the astral bodies of the deceased are without mind while the living are predominately filtering reality through the mind and mostly only emotionally feel, not 'see' their way, and the ascended masters have only their form body there with their desire body now functioning on the manasic (mind) plane. (Their mind is now on the buddhic plane which to physical man is the mysterious source of ESP and intuive insights.)

Oh and Theosophy notes that the Akashic records are also impressed on/in the Astral light and so past life memory is not necessarily an indication of a previous incarnation as the Akashic records contain all past history and is available to those who have either temporary or permanent access.

 

[WayFarer]

2) The ba and the ka are two parts that make up the soul. The ka is the individual fleeting soul that makes up a person's personality, while the ba is the higher essence the ka emminates from. If a person is wicked their ka is destroyed forever, but it's never said what happens to the ba, except that the ba is eternal and can never be destroyed.

That reminds me of the Asatru/Germanic view. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well the reason it's belived that the personality (ka) doesn't necessarily dissolve at death is because the Egyptians also had a view about an afterlife, and if you've read the Egyptian Book of the Dead, you'd know what I mean. They believed that the ka is judged in the hall of judgment on the scales of Ma'at. The ka that passes judgment is permitted to go to the Duat, but not everyone will pass. Now does making it to the Duat mean one won't ever reincarnate again? I don't know. It could be like enchanted said. Even if you gain the afterlife, after your karma is exhausted, you very well may reincarnate. That is Hinduism's idea I believe...

 

[Rainbow Mage]

At any rate. The idea for me, if there is reincarnation, is to escape from the cycle of rebirth. To reach that other place. If you're reborn you've missed the mark. That's why we in Kemetic Orthodox always pray for the ka of the departed, that they find their way to that blessed land, even non-Kemetics. The gods do not judge you in your beliefs, they judge you on your deeds.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

If you're reborn you've missed the mark.

I have put much thought into this. I have a theory that this is why our world has such a high population. So many have converted to false religions in the past 2000 years or so that the souls of those people just can't "graduate" from this world. Don't worry, Senedjem. I will see you in Duat.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well enchanted I hope so. I don't know that it's because they've converted to false religions either. Because the Sanatan Dharma is a lot like the Kemetic religion, so is Taoism. This is stated almost repeatedly in Kemetic Orthodoxy, how similar Hinduism and Taoism are to us.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I think religions like Christianity and Islam keep one tied to the cycle of rebirth, certainly. However, there are some Christians in history I'd say have a good chance of making it, like some of the saints.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well the reason it's belived that the personality (ka) doesn't necessarily dissolve at death is because the Egyptians also had a view about an afterlife, and if you've read the Egyptian Book of the Dead, you'd know what I mean. They believed that the ka is judged in the hall of judgment on the scales of Ma'at. The ka that passes judgment is permitted to go to the Duat, but not everyone will pass.

Yes Senedjem, that is correct, it is my present understanding that the Ka is symbolized by the heart in the weighing against the feather representing Maat, and if it is not yet coherently formed to survive in the Astral plane, then it must be dissolved (symbolized by the eating of it by Ammit) and reincarnation of the associated Ba will ultimately occur. On the other hand, those Ka bodies that are sufficiently coherent and fully formed (as a result of a correct life) will become an integral of the Ba and are immortal,..no more going out into the lower material worlds.

Now does making it to the Duat mean one won't ever reincarnate again? I don't know. It could be like enchanted said. Even if you gain the afterlife, after your karma is exhausted, you very well may reincarnate. That is Hinduism's idea I believe...

No enchanted and Senedjem, it is not correct according to Hinduism that once Karma has been exhausted there remains the possibility of reincarnation, quite the opposite, reincarnation is an integral part of Karma, they can't be separated and once it is exhausted then there is no more reincarnation.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Okay ben thank you, although I heard Madhuri and Wannabe Yogi say the Hindu view is that you can reincarnate after attaining the world of the gods if you only got there on the merrit of your karma. As for that relating to the Kemetic view, it was some of my leaders in Kemetic Orthodoxy that said it's possible the ba may incarnate again, even if the ka makes it to the Duat. It's not something easy to be 100% sure about because we're not ancient Egyptians to know how they viewed these things exactly.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Understand senedjem. Realistically when the actual details of this subject come up for discussion, one can only draw on the esoteric traditions of the ancient religions, intuition, and the unfolding revelations that may come via grace from on high. As to the actual absolute reality, well that's what I'm 'dying' to ultimately realize.

P.S. BTW, there is a situation in the Hindu tradition that involves a type of incarnation by an immortal, and that is the doctrine concerning Avatara, but that is another subject and does not come under the reincarnation/karma doctrine so far as I'm aware. I was not aware of any other situations of immortals reincarnating as some have indicated.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Unfortunately, none of us will know for sure until it happens.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes I agree. None of us will know for sure. I'm pretty sure though this is my last rebirth, because I'm really tired of this world, and don't want to return to it again when I die. This world in many ways is unreal and lacking to me. Love and friendship are two of the only real things about it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Love and friendship are two of the only real things about it.

Yes, reminds me of this amusing quote,.. "Love is the difficult realization that something other than oneself is real." - Iris Murdoch

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I started reading a new book today: Circle of Isis, Ancient Egyptian Magic for Modern Witches. In the book, the author shares her opinion on reincarnation as it relates to the Weighing of the Heart in The Underworld. The theory described is that those who fail, rather than perishing, are reincarnated until they can return with a heart that is sin-less enough to weigh less than the feather. This is much like the first theory of mine that I posted earlier in this thread. That doesn't mean it is right, but I just had to share it with you guys, as I didn't even expect to find it in my reading.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I started reading a new book today: Circle of Isis, Ancient Egyptian Magic for Modern Witches. In the book, the author shares her opinion on reincarnation as it relates to the Weighing of the Heart in The Underworld. The theory described is that those who fail, rather than perishing, are reincarnated until they can return with a heart that is sin-less enough to weigh less than the feather. This is much like the first theory of mine that I posted earlier in this thread. That doesn't mean it is right, but I just had to share it with you guys, as I didn't even expect to find it in my reading.

Thanks enchanted_one. Yes,that accords with my present understanding though it is not clear in that statement what it is that incarnates. According to my understanding the personality/ego aspect does not endure from one incarnation to the next, so it can only be the Ba/higher spiritual vehicle that endures beyond death to reincarnate. So no Soul ever perishes but so long as their self awareness identifies with the perishable persona as 'who' and 'what' it is, it is bound to the 'wheel of suffering' aka karma/reincarnation

Ultimately though, all souls will eventually attain to the ascended state, and like Senedjem indicated, who wants to wait, this world with its lack of love and distorted dualistically perceived reality is not for 'me' if it can possible be avoided,. Who needs the threat of a Hell,...this world will suffice!