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Discussion in 'Agnosticism' started by Cockadoodledoo, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    1.0 Introduction

    In the following thread I give a possible reason for the existence of the universe, and two solutions to the problem of death. Please note, the following assumes that God does not exist as (s)he complicates the ideas. So, let us begin............

    2.0 State of the System

    To understand reality we must first define two terms, 'System' and 'State':-

    2.1 System

    The system is that fundamental reality in which we find ourselves. We know we exist in the universe, so therefore we can conclude the universe exists within the system.

    2.2 State

    A tossed coin comes to rest in either the 'state of heads' or the 'state of tails'. So, in a way, a state is the possible realities of the system.

    So now that we understand both system and state we can proceed. It is reasoned that the system can exist in one of only two possible states, 'State 1' or 'State 2'.

    2.3 State 1 : The Void

    State 1, which is an eternal, infinite, empty void, is the first possible state of the system. Nothing comes from nothing, and that is why State 1 is an eternal void. It is reasonable to think that the system could only exist in this state, State 1, but another state is possible as we shall find out.

    2.4 State 2 : The Intelligent System

    If an intelligence was intelligent enough to devise a way of bringing itself into existence from nothing, then the system could exist in State 2, an Intelligent System. If an intelligence could never devise a way of bringing itself into existence from nothing, the system would exist in State 1, a void, for eternity. A State 2 System will exist only if an intelligence solves how to create itself from nothing.

    2.5 Reality

    So we know both you and I exist. Therefore we can conclude that the system exists in State 2, i.e., an intelligence did in fact devise a way of bringing itself into existence from nothing. Otherwise nothing would exist. We also know that we exist in the universe. Therefore, assuming God does not exist, it may be appropriate to assume that the universe is the method by which the intelligence brought itself into existence. Hence, humans could be the 'Intelligence' of the State 2 System.

    3.0 Afterlife

    In our State 2 System, humans die. This is a problem, and so here are two possible solutions:-

    3.1 Solution 1 : Einstein's Afterlife Realm

    Let's say Einstein is about to die, but before he does a 'being', working behind the scenes, transfers Einstein's consciousness to a robot shell which Einstein is quickly able to control. Einstein then makes his way towards a light where he finds a room. There, Einstein realises that having died, and as there is no God, he must have created the robot shell and afterlife room himself.

    So Einstein gets to work, first discovering how time travel can be accomplished, and then discovering how to create building blocks from nothing. So he travels back 100 years, and by creating building blocks, he builds the afterlife room. He then builds a robot shell from more building blocks and brings it to his death bed, where, behind the scenes, he transfers the dying Einstein's consciousness to the robot shell.

    So a simple afterlife awaits Einstein. Now consider what can be achieved together with all the scientists who have or will die:- the afterlife room will be perfected to become the afterlife realm, and the robot shell will be perfected to become the spirit body.

    So this is Solution 1 to the problem of death. Now for Solution 2:-

    3.2 Solution 2 : The Future's Afterlife Realm

    Let's say scientists in the distant future build an afterlife realm and spirit bodies. Then, using time travel, they travel back in time to the moment of your death and transfer your consciousness to a spirit body which is then released into the afterlife realm.

    So by transferring our consciousness, nanoseconds before death, to spirit bodies in the afterlife realm which scientists in the future have created, humans could become immortal and exist for eternity.

    4.0 Summary

    Above I have suggested that an intelligence, possibly human, devised a way of bringing itself into existence from nothing, and the method it used was to create the universe. I then gave two possible solutions to the problem of death:- Firstly, by creating an afterlife realm after death, and secondly, by creating an afterlife realm in the future.

    5.0 Conclusion

    Through reasoning I have tried to solve the mysteries of reality. It is hoped that you will be able to use these ideas if you think they have potential.


    Cockadoodledoo
     
  2. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Why? Is that just to keep it simple?
     
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  3. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    So, what is the "problem of death"? I assume it is the idea held by a great many people that the universe somehow owes them a continued existence in some form? You seem to be proposing that we create this for ourselves. One main problem I see with that particular idea as you have it laid out - who profits? You're talking about an expected eternal expenditure of energies to keep these "shells" going. Who foots the bill? And why? So that you can "visit" your roboty-spirit grandma for the rest of time?
     
  4. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    Do you think a third state is possible?
    Care to enlighten?
     
  5. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Perhaps you could first tell me why you think "the Void" is a valid state?

    I think there are infinite possible states, but "not being a state" isn't one of them.
     
  6. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    Imagine you've just died and I'm Einstein and that I've the solution to your problem. Would you take it or leave it?
     
  7. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    All I'm suggesting is.....if an intelligence didn't devise a way of creating itself from nothing, then nothing would exist and therefore a void would be the default state.
     
  8. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    An intelligent state (State 2) encompasses everything that happens in the Universe.
     
  9. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    I'm just using the word 'State' because I couldn't think of a more suitable term.

    I hope my opening post was clear enough (understandable to what I was getting at).
     
  10. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Is there a brochure or something I can read?
     
  11. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Why is intelligence required to achieve a state other than "the void?"
     
  12. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    Because it has to work out a way to bring into existence it's own intelligence from the void.
     
  13. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    I don't think we have the same idea of what "why" means.
     
  14. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I thought about asking this as well... but expected it would end in a discussion of whether or not reality exists if there is no consciousness or intelligence present to observe it. Kind of the tree falling in the woods when no one is around. And I have always found such discussions tedious.
     
  15. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    A void state will remain void for eternity. However the one case where this is not true is when something can work out a way to bring itself into existence from the void. So this something requires intelligence. Hence 'State 2' of my opening post is 'The intelligent state'.
     
  16. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    And what is the "void state" void of? Intelligence? I mean... you accept that an entire universe of inanimate matter could exist without a single intelligent being present within it, right?

    Or do all of your original post's ideas rely on the idea that universe began "empty"? Would you accept as a possibility that the matter of the universe had no "beginning"? That it has always been in existence?
     
  17. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    No and No.
     
  18. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    To me it seems logical that what we see/measure around us are the results of the method by which the 'intelligent state' brought itself into existence.

    We see rocks because they were necessary for, or by-products of, the method of how we brought ourselves into existence (assuming Humans are the intelligence of the State 2 system).
     
    #18 Cockadoodledoo, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  19. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    So, rocks were created for us by the intelligence that managed to create itself from nothing? Or humans created rocks by using intelligence to forge themselves out of nothing?

    I have to say I'd vote for the universe having been in existence for eternity before I'd subscribe to either of those ideas. If you're looking for a by-product, it's humanity - and absolutely nothing in this universe is obligated to pander to us in any way. Not even rocks.
     
  20. Cockadoodledoo

    Cockadoodledoo You’re going to get me!

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    But shouldn't an eternal universe be an infinite void?
     
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