Joshua - The Christ View of Jesus.

[Kenny]

The point I was trying to make, was that you are not of Judah, a Jew, just because you say so,.

Well... they aren't my words...

Romans 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Apparently I'm grafted in.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So, as I read it, I call his brother.

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Jesus is from the tribe of Judah

YUP! I am grafted in and adopted into the tribe of praise.

 

[dybmh]

I am grafted in and adopted into the tribe of praise.

Well... thats not exactly kosher.

"Leviticus 19:19 states: "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together." Deuteronomy 22:9–11 states: "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with two kinds of seed; lest the fulness of the seed which thou hast sown be forfeited together with the increase of the vineyard. Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an *** together. Thou shalt not wear a mingled stuff, wool and linen together." From these two passages the sages deduced six types of mixing of species which are forbidden: the mixing of seeds; the grafting of different species of trees and vegetables; the mixing of seed in a vineyard; the hybridization of domestic and wild animals; plowing or driving with domestic or non-domestic animals of different species; and the mixing of wool and linen "

Jewish Virtual Library - Mixed Species

 

[Kenny]

Well... thats not exactly kosher.

"Leviticus 19:19 states: "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together." Deuteronomy 22:9–11 states: "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with two kinds of seed; lest the fulness of the seed which thou hast sown be forfeited together with the increase of the vineyard. Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an *** together. Thou shalt not wear a mingled stuff, wool and linen together." From these two passages the sages deduced six types of mixing of species which are forbidden: the mixing of seeds; the grafting of different species of trees and vegetables; the mixing of seed in a vineyard; the hybridization of domestic and wild animals; plowing or driving with domestic or non-domestic animals of different species; and the mixing of wool and linen "

Jewish Virtual Library - Mixed Species

I don't think that is an applicable analogy unless you are saying no one can become Jewish by decision. Or are you saying that people of less melanin can't marry those with more melanin

 

[dybmh]

I don't think that is an applicable analogy unless you are saying no one can become Jewish by decision. Or are you saying that people of less melanin can't marry those with more melanin

I'm saying that the idea of "grafting" onto another culture isn't proper on many levels. It's essentially cultural appropriation, which most people agree is wrong.

If you need scriptural support for this, please see Psalm 147, the last two verses.

"He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the LORD."

In other words, accepting the law as presented by the Jewish sages is part of Jewish culture. And the Jewish sages don't allow grafting.

 

[2ndpillar]

Well... they aren't my words...

Romans 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Apparently I'm grafted in.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So, as I read it, I call his brother.

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Jesus is from the tribe of Judah

YUP! I am grafted in and adopted into the tribe of praise.

Being as your source is the false prophet Paul, I will withhold my applause. As for any branch grafted in, if it doesn't produce good fruit, it will be cut off and thrown into the fire. You might be better off using your own words than using the words of the Pharisee of Pharisees, a basin of leaven/hypocrisy.

Matthew 7:19 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. The only ones "saved" as in the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31), will be those who endure to the end (Matthew 24:13). I don't see any indications that you started on the path (Matthew 7:14, much less enduring to the end.

 

[2ndpillar]

I don't think that is an applicable analogy unless you are saying no one can become Jewish by decision. Or are you saying that people of less melanin can't marry those with more melanin

If you want to worship on the mountain of God as a "foreigner"/Gentile, then you will have to keep "My covenant"/Commandments, and My Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:6) I would surmise that as a "Christian", you are keeping the day of rest determined by Constantine in 321 AD, whereas no one could buy or sell on the day of the sun, the day of his sun god. No one could work on the day of Sol Invictus, and this is but one of the marks of the beast, Constantine. Daniel 7:25

 

[Kenny]

I'm saying that the idea of "grafting" onto another culture isn't proper on many levels. It's essentially cultural appropriation, which most people agree is wrong.

If you need scriptural support for this, please see Psalm 147, the last two verses.

"He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the LORD."

In other words, accepting the law as presented by the Jewish sages is part of Jewish culture. And the Jewish sages don't allow grafting.

I think we have lost the whole of the context of my point.

I agree that "He has done this for no other nation". But one has to look at the purpose.

Ex 19:6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

The whole of nation's original intent was to be a whole kingdom of priests. To whom? To the rest of the world! For Gen 12;2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

We have received the blessing "for all nations" from our father Abraham!

So really, it isn't the sages that declare who is but rather God who is the judge of all people for "But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.""

And again, "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heartand with all your soul, so that you may live."

The heart is not a physical birth but a spiritual birth.

Hello brother!

 

[Kenny]

Being as your source is the false prophet Paul, I will withhold my applause. As for any branch grafted in, if it doesn't produce good fruit, it will be cut off and thrown into the fire. You might be better off using your own words than using the words of the Pharisee of Pharisees, a basin of leaven/hypocrisy.

Matthew 7:19 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. The only ones "saved" as in the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31), will be those who endure to the end (Matthew 24:13). I don't see any indications that you started on the path (Matthew 7:14, much less enduring to the end.

Rom 8:33 Who then would dare to accuse those whom God has chosen in love to be his? God himself is the judge who has issued his final verdict over them—“Not guilty!”

Boy, you sure are full of the good-news gospel!

 

[dybmh]

I think we have lost the whole of the context of my point.

I agree that "He has done this for no other nation". But one has to look at the purpose.

Ex 19:6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

The whole of nation's original intent was to be a whole kingdom of priests. To whom? To the rest of the world! For Gen 12;2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

We have received the blessing "for all nations" from our father Abraham!

So really, it isn't the sages that declare who is but rather God who is the judge of all people for "But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.""

And again, "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heartand with all your soul, so that you may live."

The heart is not a physical birth but a spiritual birth.

Hello brother!

Thank you for ther reply, I appreciate the conversation.

I think where we disagree is whether or not the Will of God is the spritual conversion/unification of all the nations into 1 spiritual nation. The impression I get from Tanach is that God desires a nation set apart from the others. It's similar to the story of Korach in Numbers.

Korach, a levite, if I remember complained to Moses that the children of Aaron were set apart to be the high priests. The result was Korach being swallowed up in the earth. The message conveyed, at least to me, is that if God desires a specific family set apart for seperate obligations, it's not for us to challenge that.

The same can be said for an Israelite who claims equality with the Levites. The same can be said for a non-Jew. If God's will is to have a nation set apart; the creation of a spiritual family in a single nation diminshes / prohibits this divine will. As a result, spiritual brotherhood, eventhough it sounds nice, may not be part of the divine plan.

But I do appreciate the sweetness of what you've said.

 

[Kenny]

If you want to worship on the mountain of God as a "foreigner"/Gentile, then you will have to keep "My covenant"/Commandments, and My Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:6) I would surmise that as a "Christian", you are keeping the day of rest determined by Constantine in 321 AD, whereas no one could buy or sell on the day of the sun, the day of his sun god. No one could work on the day of Sol Invictus, and this is but one of the marks of the beast, Constantine. Daniel 7:25

I come through the blood of the lamb where His mercy is new every morning. I enter His gates with thanksgiving in my heart and enter courts with praise. In His presence, my sins were scarlet and they are now white as snow, when they were red as crimson they are white as wool

I am now in the covenant of Abraham.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you for ther reply, I appreciate the conversation.

But I do appreciate the sweetness of what you've said.

And I truly appreciate your replies. Ultimately I could be wrong, we both could be wrong or maybe we both have some right to it.

I think where we disagree is whether or not the Will of God is the spritual conversion/unification of all the nations into 1 spiritual nation. The impression I get from Tanach is that God desires a nation set apart from the others. It's similar to the story of Korach in Numbers.

I don't necessarily disagree. In our book, God goes back to the Jewish nation and handpicks 144,000 for an end-time revival. But, again, they minister to the world as was His intent from the beginning.

Perhaps we are interpreting it wrong when we say "set apart" as if one part is more important than another as if God had favorites? A husband is "set apart" for certain aspects and a wife is "set apart" for another aspect but Heaven knows we need both!

If, as I read in Exodus, He had Israel to be a priesthood for all nations, are the nations any less important to God than the priesthood? I don't think so as it would be like saying "I want all generals but no soldiers". Both are necessary (Sorry if I used military as an example--the best I can do right now )

Korach, a levite, if I remember complained to Moses that the children of Aaron were set apart to be the high priests. The result was Korach being swallowed up in the earth. The message conveyed, at least to me, is that if God desires a specific family set apart for seperate obligations, it's not for us to challenge that.

I remember the story. Can I share a different take? I see this progression:

1. God wanted the whole of the nation to be a priesthood - but 11 tribes took a left turn when Moses went face to face with God
2. God then chose the Levites - but two sons offered strange fire and now the list was shortened
3. Korah tried to usurp the authority of Moses - so that line was shortened

So, I don't think it was so much as "selecting a few" but rather some became disqualified for a wrong heart.

Anyway, that's my take

The same can be said for an Israelite who claims equality with the Levites. The same can be said for a non-Jew. If God's will is to have a nation set apart; the creation of a spiritual family in a single nation diminshes / prohibits this divine will. As a result, spiritual brotherhood, eventhough it sounds nice, may not be part of the divine plan.

And here is where we have viewpoints and God knows (I think both our hearts are right -- even if one is wrong). Reminds me of Abimelech who said "out of the integrity of my heart" and was saved.

Of course, I will lean towards my viewpoint where Jesus said, John 10: 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I was not of "the fold" but He made us one.

In the end I always say, "God is going to have a class called Faith 101 and He will start by saying "You are all wrong so let me tell you what I really meant"!

 

[2ndpillar]

I come through the blood of the lamb where His mercy is new every morning. I enter His gates with thanksgiving in my heart and enter courts with praise. In His presence, my sins were scarlet and they are now white as snow, when they were red as crimson they are white as wool

I am now in the covenant of Abraham.

The covenant of Abraham was one of blood. One of circumcision. Your leader, the Pharisee Paul, discontinued that covenant for the nations/Gentiles, as prophesized in Zechariah 14:10 per the shepherd Paul, who was appointed to pasture the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 14:7), the daughters of Babylon. It is God's mercy you must find, and according to Joel 3, that "mercy" may include you being sold into slave hood (Joel 3:8), or if lucky, you could bow down and be servants to Jacob (Isaiah 14:1-3). As for the outer courts, you may enter, as the "outer courts" are to be trampled by the nations for forty-two months (Revelation 11:3), the reigning time of the beast with two horns like a lamb, which would be Pontifex Maximus Constantine's Roman church, which is coming to an end (Isaiah 22:25), in the form of "fall" of the holder of the key of David, the pope, the present Pontifex Maximus. Of course, those hanging on to the pope, will be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:25). According to 1 John 3:8, if you practice sin, you are a son of the devil. The Lord God calls on his people to repent, and those born again, cannot sin (1 John 3:9). Apparently, there is a miscommunication as regard to whose son you are, and how that sin affects your life. As for Isaiah 1:18, it is with regards the kings of Israel and the kings of Judah and was regarding with them to have to "cease to do evil", or in other words, quite killing your neighbor, taking their goods, or sleeping with their wives, plus the added requirements of seeking justice, reproving the ruthless, and pleading for the widow (Isaiah 1:17). According to Isaiah 1:23, the "transgressors and sinners will be crushed together". If you are a sinner, I don't see how Isaiah 1 works out for you.

 

[2ndpillar]

And I truly appreciate your replies. Ultimately I could be wrong, we both could be wrong or maybe we both have some right to it.



I don't necessarily disagree. In our book, God goes back to the Jewish nation and handpicks 144,000 for an end-time revival. But, again, they minister to the world as was His intent from the beginning.

Perhaps we are interpreting it wrong when we say "set apart" as if one part is more important than another as if God had favorites? A husband is "set apart" for certain aspects and a wife is "set apart" for another aspect but Heaven knows we need both!

If, as I read in Exodus, He had Israel to be a priesthood for all nations, are the nations any less important to God than the priesthood? I don't think so as it would be like saying "I want all generals but no soldiers". Both are necessary (Sorry if I used military as an example--the best I can do right now )



I remember the story. Can I share a different take? I see this progression:

1. God wanted the whole of the nation to be a priesthood - but 11 tribes took a left turn when Moses went face to face with God
2. God then chose the Levites - but two sons offered strange fire and now the list was shortened
3. Korah tried to usurp the authority of Moses - so that line was shortened

So, I don't think it was so much as "selecting a few" but rather some became disqualified for a wrong heart.

Anyway, that's my take



And here is where we have viewpoints and God knows (I think both our hearts are right -- even if one is wrong). Reminds me of Abimelech who said "out of the integrity of my heart" and was saved.

Of course, I will lean towards my viewpoint where Jesus said, John 10: 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I was not of "the fold" but He made us one.

In the end I always say, "God is going to have a class called Faith 101 and He will start by saying "You are all wrong so let me tell you what I really meant"!

The 144,000 of Israel were chosen because they had the mark of God, which is that they taught the Commandments (Deuteronomy 6:8), and no lie could be found on their lips. They were set apart from the coming plagues of locust. Everyone else, including those who fictionally call themselves Israel or Judah, will wish to die, but cannot. (Revelation 7:2-3). As for the other sheep, the lost sheep of Israel, Yeshua sent disciples to preach to them about the kingdom of God. The "Gentiles" were excluded. (Matthew 10:5-6). There were also other sheep lost during the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon, who were spread around the world.

 

[Colt]

As Christ followers, we believe that God sent messages throughout the TaNaKh pointing to the Messiah of which we believe it is Jesus Christ (The anointed one with the anointing).

Joshua means "Jehovah is salvation" in Hebrew even as Jesus means the same in Greek.

Joshua 3 Then Joshua rose early in the morning and they set out from ****tim. And they came to the Jordan, he and all the people of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 2 At the end of three days the officers went through the camp 3 and commanded the people, “As soon as you see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God being carried by the Levitical priests, then you shall set out from your place and follow it.4 Yet there shall be a distance between you and it, about 2,000 cubits[a] in length. Do not come near it, in order that you may know the way you shall go, for you have not passed this way before.” 5 and as soon as those bearing the ark had come as far as the Jordan, and the feet of the priests bearing the ark were dipped in the brink of the water (now the Jordan overflows all its banks throughout the time of harvest), 16 the waters coming down from above stood and rose up in a heap very far away, at Adam, the city that is beside Zarethan, and those flowing down toward the Sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, were completely cut off. And the people passed over opposite Jericho…

4: 8 And the people of Israel did just as Joshua commanded and took up twelve stones out of the midst of the Jordan, according to the number of the tribes of the people of Israel, just as the Lord told Joshua. And they carried them over with them to the place where they lodged and laid them downa]">[a] there.9 And Joshua set upb]">[b] twelve stones in the midst of the Jordan, in the place where the feet of the priests bearing the ark of the covenant had stood; and they are there to this day. 10 For the priests bearing the ark stood in the midst of the Jordan until everything was finished that the Lord commanded Joshua to tell the people, according to all that Moses had commanded Joshua.

View attachment 58267

Jesus chose the title "Son of Man" not Messiah. Jesus knew he wasn't the Jewish Messiah as that erroneous concept evolved in Judaism. But he did build his teachings on the expectation of a deliverer.

After Jesus left his Jewish followers sought to make Jesus the "Jewish Messiah" by forcing Jesus into the OT scripture books in justification for their belief in Jesus.

Jesus was/is the Son of God who incarnate among a monotheistic people which had been planned via the agreement with Abraham. Jesus came for all the world, not an especially chosen nation or culture. Sharing their God with the Gentile world was simply unacceptable to the Jews.

 

[RestlessSoul]

And this is an incredible mistake on your parts. The Tanakh says actually very, very little about the messiah -- it is an insignificant part of its teaching. That Christians imagine Jesus on every page shows that you read teh books with tinted glasses.

The writers of The Gospels seem to have deliberately referenced The Tanakh in several verses; sometimes for dramatic effect, as in “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me” Psalm 22:1 also Matthew 27:46

Obviously we cannot assume, as some Christians do, that The Tanakh foreshadowed the Gospels. But that the Gospels were consciously placed in the context of Hebrew scripture, that much seems obvious. That may have considerably less significance to a Jew than a Christian, of course. But there is no doubt that Christianity has it’s roots very firmly in Judaism: many centuries of Church endorsed anti Semitism notwithstanding.

I personally know one person who identifies as both Jew and Christian, and sees no inherent contradiction. I suspect she’s rare though.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus chose the title "Son of Man" not Messiah. Jesus knew he wasn't the Jewish Messiah as that erroneous concept evolved in Judaism. But he did build his teachings on the expectation of a deliverer.

Actually, he had many titles of which included the Jewish Messiah (In the Christian understanding)

Matthew 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matthew 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 1:41He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

And so many more

After Jesus left his Jewish followers sought to make Jesus the "Jewish Messiah" by forcing Jesus into the OT scripture books in justification for their belief in Jesus.

This is where most people have a misunderstanding. There is the suffering Messiah, which has come to pass, and the return as the reigning Messiah, which is to come

Jesus was/is the Son of God who incarnate among a monotheistic people which had been planned via the agreement with Abraham. Jesus came for all the world, not an especially chosen nation or culture. Sharing their God with the Gentile world was simply unacceptable to the Jews.

Agreed.

 

[Colt]

Actually, he had many titles of which included the Jewish Messiah (In the Christian understanding)

Matthew 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matthew 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 1:41He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

And so many more




This is where most people have a misunderstanding. There is the suffering Messiah, which has come to pass, and the return as the reigning Messiah, which is to come



Agreed.

Jesus chose "Son of Man" as a title.
Peter said "you are the Son of God" which is true but not a proper name. And it was the Father within Peter who bore witness to his sons identity not the OT scriptures.

The "I AM" is an attempt to superimpose the I AM of Mosses exchange onto Jesus as a title when Jesus was simply saying that HE was in existence before this world existed.

Others "assumed" Jesus was the Messiah, he allowed them to think what they needed to think considering the largely erroneous concept in Judaism of a Messiah.

They assumed Jesus would soon return to do Messiah things but that was a false assumption. So Christianity had to create new false expectations because they want Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah.

I'm sympathetic with our Jewish friends because they are just following their religious books written by religious men who subsequently claimed God wrote.

In Judaism there was no concept of God having a Son in heaven who would incarnate as a human to be killed as a sacrifice for sin. In Judaism salvation was a matter of keeping Gods statutes in their scripture books. Again, Christians are forcing Jesus into areas of the OT where he never was before.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus chose "Son of Man" as a title.
Peter said "you are the Son of God" which is true but not a proper name. And it was the Father within Peter who bore witness to his sons identity not the OT scriptures.

I disagree on multiple points. Not only did Jesus not correct him, but Satan said it, demons said it, multiple people said it and:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus said it.

The "I AM" is an attempt to superimpose the I AM of Mosses exchange onto Jesus as a title when Jesus was simply saying that HE was in existence before this world existed.

No, it is what he said for "... and the Word WAS God".

Others "assumed" Jesus was the Messiah, he allowed them to think what they needed to think considering the largely erroneous concept in Judaism of a Messiah.

That is purely a conceptual idea on your part.

They assumed Jesus would soon return to do Messiah things but that was a false assumption. So Christianity had to create new false expectations because they want Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah.

It was a false assumption but no new false expectations were created. They understood after the fact.

I'm sympathetic with our Jewish friends because they are just following their religious books written by religious men who subsequently claimed God wrote.

Which, in my view, He did as He moved on people by His Holy Sprit,

In Judaism there was no concept of God having a Son in heaven who would incarnate as a human to be killed as a sacrifice for sin. In Judaism salvation was a matter of keeping Gods statutes in their scripture books. Again, Christians are forcing Jesus into areas of the OT where he never was before.

We don't have a concept that God had a Son in Heaven either. Not sure where you got that from.

 

[Colt]

I disagree on multiple points. Not only did Jesus not correct him, but Satan said it, demons said it, multiple people said it and:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus said it.



No, it is what he said for "... and the Word WAS God".



That is purely a conceptual idea on your part.



It was a false assumption but no new false expectations were created. They understood after the fact.



Which, in my view, He did as He moved on people by His Holy Sprit,



We don't have a concept that God had a Son in Heaven either. Not sure where you got that from.

To be clear Jesus was, is and always has been The Son of God. The demons knew him as well as Satan because he created them. What I'm saying is that between Abrahams blind faith and Jesus the Jews developed a national ego and a selfish concept of a Messiah that failed. The problem wasn't God or the Son of God, the problem was the concept of the Jewish Messiah was largely erroneous. Being selected went to their heads. In fact, the religion of Judaism became all about being selected and the traditions and endless feasts, holidays and compulsive rituals and rules associated with being selected. They lost sight of what they were selected for.

 

[Kenny]

The demons knew him as well as Satan because he created them.

Agreed

To be clear Jesus was, is and always has been The Son of God.

Can I split hairs here? Yes, Jesus was, is and always been The Son of God but it was AFTER he came in the flesh. Before the body of Jesus was created, He was The Word and was God.

What I'm saying is that between Abrahams blind faith and Jesus the Jews developed a national ego and a selfish concept of a Messiah that failed. The problem wasn't God or the Son of God, the problem was the concept of the Jewish Messiah was largely erroneous. Being selected went to their heads. In fact, the religion of Judaism became all about being selected and the traditions and endless feats holidays and compulsive rituals and rules associated with being selected.

I don't think I am interested in dealing with this issue. It is too broad of a brush. Hey, even Christians have survived 4 end-of-times points because they were wrong. I remember 88 reasons why Jesus was coming back in 1988... so glad I don't buy into these things.

But my Jewish brothers were the keepers of the word of God and through the Jewish nation my Messiah came... so I am thankful for the remnant that is always faithful and always there.