Jihad is not what you think it is

[Flankerl]

Hamas is not Muslim brotherhood and has nothing to do with them.

"Hamas was founded in 1987,[21][22] soon after the First Intifada broke out, as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood,"

 

[Lyndon]

for once, Flankerl may be right, that doesn't stop her from being wrong about almost everything else, though??

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I lived there a long time and still maintain contact.. I have never known any ex-pat who was mistreated or molested in anyway.

Where does your dinner companion live in Arabia?

He doesn't live there, but stays there for extended periods due to the nature of his work.
He lives in Dubai.

Mostly Riyadh. He behaves in a very different way in KSA to how he would elsewhere. He is not mistreated or molested, I would say, although that's not the same as 'having difficulties'. I wasn't meaning crime, I meant more generally restrictions on many things.

 

[sooda]

He doesn't live there, but stays there for extended periods due to the nature of his work.
He lives in Dubai.

Mostly Riyadh. He behaves in a very different way in KSA to how he would elsewhere. He is not mistreated or molested, I would say, although that's not the same as 'having difficulties'. I wasn't meaning crime, I meant more generally restrictions on many things.

Dating and drinking would be a problem.. unless you lived in one of the compounds in the eastern province or were married.

 

[sooda]

"Hamas was founded in 1987,[21][22] soon after the First Intifada broke out, as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood,"

Yes and Israel supported the development of HAMAS.. Muslims and Christians lobbied against it, however they were recruiting from the meanest and most impoverished refugee camps.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Dating and drinking would be a problem.. unless you lived in one of the compounds in the eastern province or were married.

He got married before going there because it would have been problematic otherwise.

 

[sooda]

He got married before going there because it would have been problematic otherwise.

Good for him. Smart move.

 

[Flankerl]

for once, Flankerl may be right, that doesn't stop her from being wrong about almost everything else, though??

You are such a petty person.

Yes and Israel supported the development of HAMAS

For which there still doesn't exist any evidence.

What is true is that Israel supported the building of mosques in the Gaza Strip after 1967. This continued till 1975.
Hamas was founded 12 years later and afterwards immediately attacked Israelis.

Muslims and Christians lobbied against it

Amazing claim. But where's the evidence?

 

[England my lionheart]

Hamas is not Muslim brotherhood and has nothing to do with them.

Yeah and the Pope's not Catholic right.

 

[England my lionheart]

for once, Flankerl may be right, that doesn't stop her from being wrong about almost everything else, though??

That's really poor,you could just own up to being wrong.

 

[Lyndon]

That's really poor,you could just own up to being wrong.

Give that you've been totally wrong about Jihad throughout this thread, I wouldn't talk!!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I hope this topic is not going to offend anyone, but it is an important part of the understanding of Islam.

For starters, why would I listen to you, a budhist, to gain informaiton on what the word "jihad" means in islam?

As soon as a person bring up the Arabic word Jihad it is seen as something very evil, But do you really know the true meaning behind the word?

I do. But I don't care either way.
I don't care at all what theological jargon technically means in what contexts.
What actually matters is how it is practiced - because how it is practiced, is what actually affects society and people like me. The meaning of words is nice for a dictionary but it doesn't mean anything in practice.

For the exact same reason, I couldn't care less what Shariah is all about "according to the quran" or "according to scholars XYZ". What matters, is how it is actually implemented in the real world.

How it is supposed to work on paper is of no concern. How it actually works, in the real world, is what matters.

It is not as bad as you think, because it does not mean Holy war only, And the war part is the very last thing in this, and it is only as defence.

That's nice.

As an extension to what I said above though: go tell it to jihadists.
Your little "explanation" here, is of no relevance to anything.

While you were writing that post, actual real-world jihadists were plotting and carrying out suicide attacks, stoning women accused of adultery, giving whip lashes to someone for a petty crime, cutting of opposing hands and feet of those accused of stealing, etc.

So you, a budhist, are saying here that they got it all wrong and that this and that in islam really means something else... Well: wooptie doo. It doesn't change anything.

In Arabic the Word Jihad means struggle or spiritual struggle, it actually is meant as a word for the internal struggle each muslim go thru in their practice. Not a call for war on everyone who is not a muslim.

Nice. But the fact is that whenever we hear muslims use that word, more often then not something very very very different is meant and practiced - and you know that too.

So what we call terrorists today, has nothing to do with islam, because they dont understand even the most simple verse they clame to be in war for.

To say that the ideology of groups like ISIS, Al-qaida, Al nusra, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc etc etc "has nothing to do with islam", is simply a very severe case of head-in-sand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is not islam in it self that have done a lot of wrong, it is the followers

That's true of all religions and all ideologies.

Communism has done no harm - communists have.
Racism has done no harm - racists have.
Theism has done no harm - theists have.

who do not understand the teaching

And who are you to tell them that they didn't understand the teaching?
Maybe it's YOU who isn't understanding the teaching?

In the end, we ARE talking about superstitious religious beliefs, so it's not like there is a "correct" or "wrong" way to do it, since none of it can be tested for accuracy.

Everything about any religion is a prosess within one self. No need to fight other people

In your opinion.

Clearly their (=isis, al qaida, etc) opinion is very different from yours.
Your opinion isn't true by default because it sounds more appealing.


But again, as I said in the previous post.... All this doesn't really matter to me. It doesn't matter how it is supposed to work "in theory" or "on paper". What matters is how it works in practice. And how it currently works in practice, is very different from what it is supposed to be in your opinion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Terrorists are not muslims

Islamic terrorists are muslim, no matter how much you try to spin or deny it.

ISIS fighters are muslims.
Hezbollah are muslims.
Al-qaida are muslims.
Boko Haram are muslims.
etc...

The motivation of these people is islamic in nature. Their religious islamic beliefs are their motivation.
They do what they do because they believe it is their islamic religious duty.

To deny this, is to deny reality.

they can only be terrorists because they do not follow the rightroues path in Islam, and yes those who do harm to others can not be called religious.

In your opinion.
Clearly jihadists have other opinions.

 

[sooda]

You are such a petty person.




For which there still doesn't exist any evidence.

What is true is that Israel supported the building of mosques in the Gaza Strip after 1967. This continued till 1975.
Hamas was founded 12 years later and afterwards immediately attacked Israelis.


Amazing claim. But where's the evidence?

Ii have watched testimony on CSPAN about Israel's support of HAMAS.

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
Andrew Higgins on how Israel's decades-long dealings with Palestinian Islamists reveal a catalog of unintended and often perilous consequences.

 

[Lyndon]

I don't know of any Muslim country that practices amputations, and stoning for adultery would be about only Saudi Arabia maybe, the Muslim countries are much more conventional on punishing crime than you would believe. Stealing gets you put in jail. etc

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Anyone who have studied the scriptures and have cultivated their mind toward no harm, no ill will toward others will know that to harm others in any religious name is indeed a very evil deed. It is not Islam or Christianity or Catholic teaching that is wrong or evil, it is the man/woman who execute the wrong deed that is evil, so if you take all religion and say they are evil because some people misunderstood the teaching as going to war against other beliefs/religion then it is evidence of lack of understanding of the teaching.

I think abrahamic religions in particular, but it goes for most religions I'ld think, are indeed bad for society as they are inherently divisive.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Has any Muslim thrust his belief on you?
I lived around them for a couple of decades and I never knew any American who had Islam forced on them.

There was a group of muslims in Belgium which actively converted and recruited people to send them of to Syria and join ISIS or Al Nusra.

The group's name was "Shariah4Belgium".

What's in a name, right?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Look at the Arab Spring.. Gaddafi was a terrible leader who threw out the Idris constitution, nearly killed the Libyan oil business and was a prancing peacock on the world stage. Mubarak stayed way too long and promoted corruption especially if he benefitted.. Assad is a butcher just like his father who simply squashed the life out of the Syrian people..

The idea of the "arab spring" seems to me to be completely nonsensical.
The words are used as if it was a good thing.

But it seems to me that only even more misery, radicalism and oppression came out of it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In its broadest sense, those Muslims who proclaim themselves warriors for the faith is called mujahideens, But again worrior in this sense means those who cultivate the teaching, as far as my knowledge go about this topic

Is that why Mujahideens' seemingly official outfit includes a kalashnikof and a bazooka?