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Featured Jews Only: Let's discuss the Hebrew Scriptures

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Messianic Israelite, May 7, 2020.

  1. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    This thread might be removed as I think this is the first thread I've posted on the Judaism DIR, but it would make more sense posting this here than on the Christianity DIR. So I've been reading the Hebrew Scriptures and I always find in enlightening. I figured this thread would be great to discuss Torah thoughts, or thoughts about the Hebrew Scriptures in general. As the saying goes "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

    Right now I'm reading the Book of Chronicles and I would love to get to know your opinions on certain subjects.

    You can use this thread to discuss anything related to these things as you study the Hebrew Scriptures. You can choose to ignore a comment, or respond to it. I'm just hoping to inspire some good discussions.
     
  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    This would probably be better in Religious Q&A or Interfaith Discussion.
    Note to clarify: I'd be happy to discuss, I just don't think this is the right section to do this, per forum rules.
     
    #2 Harel13, May 7, 2020
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  3. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi Harel13. Good afternoon. I don't think so. I can imagine me posting on there would simply attract a lot of sceptical people. It would become a battleground not for discussing faith and scripture, but the authenticity of the Word.
     
  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    @Rival thoughts? Would it be okay to discuss stuff here?
     
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  5. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    No. He is not Jewish so he can't participate in discussion here, only respectful questions. It would be better in interfaith with a title prefix stating only for Jews. That way he won't be in any trouble later.
     
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  6. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    No problem Rival. Can you move this thread to the interfaith?
     
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  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Hopefully I'll see you there tomorrow (it's late by me).
     
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  8. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    So one of my thoughts in my studying of the Hebrew Scriptures, specifically 1 Chronicles for now, is the thorough explanation of the genealogies. I always find it faith building. So many people that claim to believe in the Bible claim it is not to be taken literally, but the genealogies prove to me that actually, the Bible was lived by real people with real lives. 1 Chronicles 2:7 describes Achar or Achan as the troubler of Israel. My mind took me back to Ahab in 1 Kings 18 when he accused EliYah of being the troubler of Israel in verse 16 - 18. " When he saw EliYah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned Yahweh's commands and have followed the Baals."

    Ahab in a sense was calling EliYah an Achan, and EliYah didn't stand for that. I just thought it was interesting using that term 'troubler of Israel'. I haven't looked at this term in a concordance though so I might be way off, haha.
     
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  9. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    1 Chronicles 4 also impressed me in the genealogies because it briefly mentions someone by the name of Jabez. It says:

    "9 Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. His mother had named him Jabez, saying, “I gave birth to him in pain.” 10 Jabez cried out to the Elohim of Israel, “Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.” And Elohim granted his request."

    The definition I have for the name Jabez is "he makes sorrowful"; his mother stated "I gave birth to him in pain". Jabez was labelled with "sorrow" at birth, but his prayer against contracting sorrow nullified the label. In the Hebrew Scriptures, many times people are called names according to their personality traits, but Jabez was able to overcome that which he was labelled by. This is so inspirational to me to know that people's fate isn't set in stone, but Yahweh is able to reverse even our destiny. Yahweh knows our innermost being. He knows what kind of genetic make up will determine what kind of people we are before we are even born as we read in Psalm 139:16. It encourages me to know that people can overcome the nature that we have through Yahweh's power and become more.

    It also reminds me of when the curse and blessings were pronounced, half of the people in front of Gerizim and half in front of Ebal in Joshua 8:33. What kind of impression did that make on some of them people. Did some of those who were in front of the mount for cursing seek Yahweh and some of those in front of the mount for blessing become lapse in their duties and do wickedly. I always find the subject of fate interesting because nothing is set in stone with Yahweh. All things are possible.

    Any thoughts?
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    In general, one tool I use often is the interlinear version of the Hebrew of the verses on Biblehub. It's far from perfect, but I use it so often, I thought it deserved a shout out in this thread.

    Regarding Chronicles, I don't know the content of that specific book. But, wasn't it written by Ezra? The Ezra? If so, considering the theme of the book of Ezra, it would make sense that there is genealogy information included in Chronicles.
     
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  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    The Talmud says Ya'avetz was Otniel ben Kenaz and that the name Ya'avetz means adviser and teacher of Torah in Israel (Ya'atz v'ribetz Torah b'Yisrael).
     
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  13. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I also love the genealogy section of Chronicles. It really is fascinating learning more background info on people from the earlier prophet books. Every time I open that section of Chronicles I feel like I'm diving into a secret wealth of knowledge. Recently I completed an essay on Judges that drew heavily from parts of the genealogies in Chronicles. I love connecting the clues and trying to figure out the bigger picture.
     
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  14. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi dybmh. Good morning. Thanks for that. My dad says he uses the Blue Letter Bible which he introduced me to just last week which also seems pretty good. But I will be sure to check Biblehub out too. In terms of the writer of Chronicles, I know that Jewish and Christian tradition identified this author as the 5th century BC figure Ezra.
     
  15. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Indeed. It's certainly interesting to see how people are described too, and how each tribe had specific characteristics and talents contributing to the whole nation. Although some of what I'm referring to comes later, such as 1 Chronicles 12:8, the description of the Gadites "And of the Gadites there separated themselves unto David to the stronghold in the wilderness, mighty men of valor, men trained for war, that could handle shield and spear; whose faces were like the faces of lions, and they were as swift as the roes upon the mountains:"

    But what's great about it is it's not just the genealogies that are mentioned i.e. who descended from who, but interspersed throughout the genealogies is information that you just don't get in the rest of the Bible, such as that of Jabez and others. To see the record of the genealogies truly makes you think that a great deal of effort went in to tracing the lineages of family through the ages. To know where we're going, it is useful to know where we come from.
     
  16. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Another thing that impressed me upon reading 1 Chronicles recently was the men of valor, or otherwise known as David's mighty men mentioned in 1 Chronicles 11:10 and onwards. These men were exceptionally courageous, loyal, brave and strong warriors and the implication is that many of them trusted in Yahweh. What really got me was reading about Urijah the Hittite and to be reminded that he was one of the mighty men mentioned in 1 Chronicles 11:41. Of course, David had him killed when he commit adultery with Bathsheba. How David could have done that I don't really know as his very name means 'Yahweh is my light'. His fleshly temptations must've really clouded his judgement. But, the acts of just some of these mighty men is very impressive.

    Anyway in 1 Chronicles 11:16-19 it also shows the love these mighty men had for David in willing to risk their lives simply to bring David some water when he was thirsty. It's interesting how David compares water to blood when he says " shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy?" This same comparison is made in Exodus 4:9 when Moses struck the rivers and they became blood and also 2 Kings 3:22 when the Moabites mistook water for blood. In the Torah there is also a comparison between pouring the blood of an animal like water in Deuteronomy 15:23 where it says "Only thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it out upon the ground as water". It seems blood and water have a strong connection in the Bible.

    Any thoughts?
     
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  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    For what it's worth:
    • I'm pleased that this thread was moved out of the Judaism DIR. (Thank you, @Rival.)
    • I do not understand the "Jews Only" conditional in your title. I read this as implying that members (?) of your "Assemblies of Yahweh" somehow stand closer to Jews than do Christians and Muslims and are, somehow, more legitimate participants in what is projected to be a Jewish conversation. I don't accept the premise.

    I also do not understand an invitation to chat about Torah - a text that has inspired an enormous wealth of variegated commentary. I would have thought that something more focused would have been more productive.

    L'shalom ...
     
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  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    OTOH, why wait for focused topic, when we can talk Torah now, {albeit in a less focused manner.} Bravo @Messianic Israelite for taking a risk and posting this thread. :)
     
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  19. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi Jayhawker. Good afternoon. Maybe you're right. Perhaps something more focused would have been more productive. When I read, I get eager to discuss whatever stood out to me. It would be great to hear the thoughts of Jewish people. Hopefully it doesn't cause offence. I just wanted to discuss scripture without the noise of claims about the Bible being untrue as I have heard so much about on RF recently. Many Jews have a good understanding of the Hebrew Scriptures so it's always nice to get their views.
     
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  20. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Good response. Thanks.
     
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