Jesus & Lucifer

[Marco19]

just wanted to post a link to the Plan of Salvation,
it's from lds.org it's helped me, of course beside the replies here in this thread

hope this works, first time adding links ...

The Plan of Salvation

 

[Katzpur]

just wanted to post a link to the Plan of Salvation,
it's from lds.org it's helped me, of course beside the replies here in this thread

hope this works, first time adding links ...

The Plan of Salvation

Imagine someone actually going to the Church's official site for information. What a novel approach.

Thank you for doing so.

 

[Sola'lor]

Hey sorry I never finished my expalaination. I'll finish it soon.

 

[madhatter85]

I am actually giving the lesson in EQ next week on the war in heaven. It's chapter 3 of the new Gospel Principles manual.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I am actually giving the lesson in EQ next week on the war in heaven. It's chapter 3 of the new Gospel Principles manual.

Wow. Cool. Are you going to talk about Revelations when it talks about woe to the inhabitants of the earth because Satan has come to dwell upon it in great wrath? I think a healthy understanding of what we're up against is important. Satan hates us. He is mad at us and remembers that we fought against him in the preexistence. This is no game. He'll do everything in his power to make us miserable as he is. The war in heaven didn't end. It just changed location to the earth.

 

[madhatter85]

Wow. Cool. Are you going to talk about Revelations when it talks about woe to the inhabitants of the earth because Satan has come to dwell upon it in great wrath? I think a healthy understanding of what we're up against is important. Satan hates us. He is mad at us and remembers that we fought against him in the preexistence. This is no game. He'll do everything in his power to make us miserable as he is. The war in heaven didn't end. It just changed location to the earth.

in a way yes.

When I was in the temple a little bit ago I realized why Lucifer rebelled. It was fear. If you look at what happened and how we were shown the possibility of failure he was afraid he would be one of the ones to fail. His pride, being as he was the next heir to Jehovah, allowed him the courage to rebel, thinking he could take his father's kingdom by force.

It then saddens me to think about all the brothers and sisters who we had spent the eternity with until that point were now our enemies. And yes the war rages still today. Satan knows we have power to resist him and to cast him from our presence. So what does he do? He would have us believe we are weak, that we can't help but give into temptation. as we submit to sin we submit to his will and he has power over us even unto the dwelling within our tabernacles.

In reality, Satan is exposed to the elements without a tabernacle of flesh. Wandering like a man with no home.

 

[Marco19]

Hey sorry I never finished my expalaination. I'll finish it soon.

Yes Sir!
i am waiting you, and any other additions from LDS fellows,
that will enrich the thread

Best Regards.

 

[FFH]

1- what was the purpose of Heavenly Father to make the plan of salvation?

So that we could experience a fullness of joy.

We can only experience this fullness of joy by being tested to see if we will be holy and perfect in every situation placed before us in this world. It's only through our worthiness (obedience to the laws and ordinances of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ found only in the LDS faith) that we are allowed to enter into the presence of our Heavenly Father and his son Jesus Christ, wherein is a fullness of joy only experienced.

2- why Satan wanted to destroy the plan of salvation?

For his own selfish glory, gain, evil desires, etc.

3- Jesus and Satan are brothers, do they have some other known brothers? are the prophets there brother?

We are all spirit brothers and sisters of our Heavenly Father. There was much sadness in heaven when Lucifer fell from heaven, when he rebelled against our Heavenly Father's plan.

4- before the plan, we were spirits, but Heavenly father, Jesus, Lucifer ... they all have bodies
the question is: what is the purpose of having body in the heaven?
do they use there bodies for eating, marrying ,,, etc

Lucifer will never have a body, he will forever remain as an evil spirit bound in hell for eternity.

5- who don't obey Jesus on the earthly life, will go to Hell ...
is this means that Lucifer is in the Hell now?

Yes, but he is currently allowed out of hell to tempt us, but he will be BOUND in hell for eternity very soon, when Jesus sets up his kingdom on the earth for 1000 years.

6- Heavenly Father knew that Lucifer is wicked, why He didn't stop him from the beginning,
so we as humans wouldn't have to suffer?

There MUST be an opposition in all things, so we can make an intelligent decisions, based on our experiences of both good and evil on this earth.

7- (hope i understood correctly) ... if Jesus and Lucifer are sons of Heavenly Father,
is this means they have one mother? or they are from different wombs?

They're both SPIRIT brothers, created SPIRITUALLY by our Heavenly Father, not physically from a womb.

 

[Katzpur]

They're both SPIRIT brothers of our Heavenly Father, created SPIRITUALLY, not physically from a womb.

I think you meant to say that they were spirit brothers to each other, not spirit brothers of our Father in Heaven. At least that's what I hope you intended to say.

 

[FFH]

I think you meant to say that they were spirit brothers to each other, not spirit brothers of our Father in Heaven. At least that's what I hope you intended to say.

Yeah, thanks, I'll correct that.

 

[David69]

why cant Jesus and Lucifer be parts of God instead of his sons or creations etc?
We are not just one sided... far from it!

Lucifer... I heard that the eagle landed in 69!!! Maybe he controls our advancements!

Katzpur...

I think you meant to say that they were spirit brothers to each other, not spirit brothers of our Father in Heaven. At least that's what I hope you intended to say.

Let his soul speak!
What if Jesus is the light side of Lucifer! What if Lucifer/Gods proudest creation, is a part of God that God denies! (for now) How would this fit into lds beleifs... would it make sense or if not, how not?
Thanks
David.

 

[Katzpur]

why cant Jesus and Lucifer be parts of God instead of his sons or creations etc?

They can't be, because they're not. It's that simple.

We are not just one sided... far from it!

Nor are we either Jesus or Lucifer. You and I and every other human being are both good and evil. That is not the case with Jesus or Lucifer, according to LDS theology. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

What if Jesus is the light side of Lucifer! What if Lucifer/Gods proudest creation, is a part of God that God denies! (for now) How would this fit into lds beleifs... would it make sense or if not, how not?

Sorry, David. It just doesn't fit at all.

 

[David69]

They can't be, because they're not. It's that simple.

please explain!

Nor are we either Jesus or Lucifer. You and I and every other human being are both good and evil. That is not the case with Jesus or Lucifer, according to LDS theology. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

opposite ends of the spectrum... because we are one whole with different sides to us! and Jesus and Lucifer well... Lucifer is Dark and light like us but Jesus is just the light!!! maybe! So could this not mean that Jesus the light side? no ovcourse not... absurd eh!

btw Katzpur out of all the sigs here so far... its yours that shines out to me!
Thanks
David.

 

[Katzpur]

opposite ends of the spectrum... because we are one whole with different sides to us! and Jesus and Lucifer well... Lucifer is Dark and light like us but Jesus is just the light!!! maybe! So could this not mean that Jesus the light side? no ovcourse not... absurd eh!

I don't know how to explain it any other way than I have, David. We don't believe that Jesus has a dark side to Him. We believe He is perfect, absolute goodness. We believe that Lucifer stand for everything that opposes goodness. I can understand why you, as a Luciferian, would find that offensive, but that's what we believe. To us, He was the instigator of rebellion against God and has been fighting against God since He was cast out of Heaven.

btw Katzpur out of all the sigs here so far... its yours that shines out to me!

Thanks, David! That's nice of you to say!

 

[madhatter85]

plain and simple. Lucifer rebelled because he was afraid he would be one of the many who would fall away after the plan was presented to all of God's spirit children for them to have the chance to become like him. Christ was the first to say "Here I am, send me" then Lucifer was second. it was in desperation that he presented to take away free-agency. the entire history of what happened in the pre-existence point towards a frightened, rebellious, and prideful little twerp.

 

[David69]

I don't know how to explain it any other way than I have, David. We don't believe that Jesus has a dark side to Him. We believe He is perfect, absolute goodness. We believe that Lucifer stand for everything that opposes goodness. I can understand why you, as a Luciferian, would find that offensive, but that's what we believe. To us, He was the instigator of rebellion against God and has been fighting against God since He was cast out of Heaven.

Thanks, David! That's nice of you to say!

Hi Katzpur, I didnt say that Jesus had a dark side to him but Lucifer has a dark and light side to him.. Satan/Jesus. I beleive that Jesus was the light! morning star, also Lucifer is the morning star but to me it is the Jesus or light essence of him.
I hear you... To me Jesus is my brother, I fully recognised him last year (strange for the so called anti-christ lol but true) Me as a Lucifarian is not at all offended about peoples beleifs in Lucifer. To me he is the bringer of light! He is good to the good and well, not so good to the evil... That I give you my word!!! So Jesus came first as that was fathers will! Jesus done what he had to do, no more and no less IMO
He paved the way for his angel!!! Now whos that Angel? IMO, the Angel of Light!
Could it be that anti-christ that the whole world accepts? or could it be the real Messiah... Jesus second coming!!! While people see two different beings, I see two sides of one!!! IMO Lucifer will not let Religion fall as is the beleif of the masses... It is the evil manipulators within that take the plunge. I'll give a hint... Do you think that the good Father would order the slaughter of the Jews in his or the sons name? All those people blowing themselves and others away in the name of some God and on the promise of eturnal life etc! Not in my book!!! It is the evil manipulators of the world that will fall IMO... Actually, I cant find much info on Lucifer and whats there is, is misunderstood IMO. I beleive that he doesnt want a religion in his name but he will let the good people do what they feel!
I have not been brought up into Religion but I obsurved it and to be honest all I seen was manipulation! Huge Armys, both with God on there side, killing each other. Control manipulation and countless numbers of my lambs wiped out through power trips, territory, resourses and wealth... greeeed!!! That will stop! I do not like it, under Gods or Jesus Name! Down with the true evil! I feel all this in my heart and the feelings are strong. Please exuse my aproach and despite of my labels I am usually greatly missunderstood. Please take the time to get to know me to see the real me!
Thanks.