Jesus is not god or the son of god

[Muffled]

Person does not just mean a human being.Look up the word person and read all of the definitions.Jehovah God is a person,Jesus is a person, but the holy spirit is not.When the holy spirt is given by God to people to carry out His will,these people are not being possessed by a person called the holy spirit, or holy ghost.It is God's active force.His power.Here is an example.

Luke 1:35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son.

It refers to the holy spirt producing "power of the Most High."

Heres another.....

Micah 3:8 As for me, I am filled with power by the spirit of Jehovah,
And with justice and might,
To tell to Jacob his revolt and to Israel his sin.

"power by the spirit of Jehovah"

And another.......

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

The holy spirit is God's active force which gives people the power to carry out His will.It is not a person.

If you look a this passage in Luke it is obvious that Elizabeth is not being filled with another person.

Luke 1:41 Well, as Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the infant in her womb leaped, and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit

Here John the Baptist refers to the holy spirit as power, not a person.

Matthew 3:11 I, for my part, baptize you with water because of your repentance, but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to take off. That one will baptize you with holy spirit and with fire.

Peter speaks of this too.....
Acts 10:38 about Jesus who was from Naz′a·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him.

I believe I will show you that your supposed proofs of this do not really prove it.

I believe it is correct to say that the person of God which is what Holy Spirit means in this case not Paraclete, comes with power. Power is an attribute of God not a separate entity of its own. I believe you are personifying an attribute of God. At any rate it does not say that God is power.

I believe this is a JW myth with no evidence to support it.

I believe it does not say that and you have already agreed that The Spirit of God is a person. In fact by definition any spirit is a person.

I believe that verse never mentions anything about a person but as you already know a spirit is a person so saying spirit means person.

To sum it up as long as a spirit can be defined as a person, it will never come to mean an attribute of a person.

 

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post

Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
I believe stating that something is clear means it can't be proven. Jesus said "I and my Father are one."

Bible Student the Three are one GOD, but the ONE GOD is three distinct Beings. John confirms that in Chapters 15-18. Look at 15:26-27, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness: , because ye have been with me from the beginning."

Matt.28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in(1) the name of the Father, (2)and of the Son, (3)and of the Holy Ghost:"



Muffled, "The church creed states" isn't the Scriptures, but the assumptions/or beliefs of man.

I agree that a statement agreed to by religious leaders of the day may or may not be scripturally accurate but I believe these men would not have merely made assumptions. I also believe that beliefs based on scripture may or may not be correct interpetations. That leaves you with the necessity to prove that the scriptures say what you thnk they say.

I beleive names or titles might indicate different persons but they can also indicate the same person as I am a father, son and spirit but I am the same person. So the bottom line is that one may not see different title or names and assume that it is different persons but evidence for such must be presented.

I believe when Jesus says I and my Father are one that means they are one being. Being is included in the concept of singularity.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is not god or the son of god

Certainly Jesus was neither god nor son of god.

Regards

I believe your statements have already been proven false over and over again so stating that falsehood will never make it true.

 

[Nada]

I believe I will show you that your supposed proofs of this do not really prove it.

I believe it is correct to say that the person of God which is what Holy Spirit means in this case not Paraclete, comes with power. Power is an attribute of God not a separate entity of its own. I believe you are personifying an attribute of God. At any rate it does not say that God is power.

I believe this is a JW myth with no evidence to support it.

I believe it does not say that and you have already agreed that The Spirit of God is a person. In fact by definition any spirit is a person.

I believe that verse never mentions anything about a person but as you already know a spirit is a person so saying spirit means person.

To sum it up as long as a spirit can be defined as a person, it will never come to mean an attribute of a person.

It is not a person.

 

[Desert Snake]

Unfortunately for Xians who think this this way, they aren't legit theistically because Judaism is not ok with any of the Jesus stuff, not just the 'divinity of Jesus' part.

Congratulations, you just not only talked yourself out of religion that has any authority, you don't even have a theistic stance, either.

 

[Nada]

Lol........................:biglaugh:

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe your statements have already been proven false over and over again so stating that falsehood will never make it true.

I don't agree with you.

Regards

 

[LightTraveler]

"Jesus is not god or the son of god"

We're all sons and daughters of God. So your statement is worthy of being tossed into a fireplace.

 

[Harikrish]

Jesus is not God or the son of God. According to the trinity doctrine there are three Gods. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Sprit.

Mary the virgin mother of Jesus was conceived by God according to the angel that appeared to Joseph. There were 3 Gods involved in the act. Does that suggest Jesus was the only one that stayed behind in her womb or the son impregnated the mother?

 

[Thief]

So God is not allowed to tweak His creation?
He may not have children?

and reducing spirit into flesh can be a bit of a problem.
If God is the Father....then any son in flesh might be far less.

and of course, as we recite the Lord's Prayer with heart felt rendering.....
we are declaring ourselves....sons of God.

Heaven hears it.....so too the devil.

 

[Harikrish]

Why did Jesus believe his Father was God?

Joseph told Jesus he was not his real father and it is quite unlikely anyone stepped forward and claimed to be Jesus's real father because adultery was punishable by death. So what was a disturbed young Jesus to do? He searched the scriptures for answers. There is evidence of his early obsession with scriptures. At the age of 12 he was already well versed in the Bible and called the temple his Father's house. And henceforth he called God his Father even before his biological parents.

Luke 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?"

 

[Harikrish]

Jesus is many things to many people. Jesus also made many claims.

But what was Jesus according to the scriptures? Was Jesus Lord, liar and a Lunatic and not The trinity God, Son and Spirit?

Another trinity is supported in the same scriptures, according to C.S. Lewis.

The fact that there are so many references by Jesus to his various titles and as a 30 year old man was unmarried, did not hold a job and every sentence that came out of his mouth praised God. Jesus performed miracles, raised the dead and healed people. Jesus was found guilty of blasphemy and asked to be crucified. Can theses attributes of Jesus suggest an alternate triune of personalities a more morbid trinity of sorts suggesting Jesus was Lord, Liar and Lunatic, all three in One. Sorry, textual criticism.

Scripture proving Jesus was Lord, a liar and/or a lunatic.


Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

1. To be put to death one had to be a false prophet. Jesus was put to death for claiming to be something he was not. That is falsehood or lying.

2. Knowing it is already commanded by God to Moses not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death. Jesus was threatened with stoning for blaspheming several times, he even had to slip away and hide from the mob. But he did not stop calling himself their messiah and Christ. He knew the scriptures as well as the Jews and yet he defied them to follow through which they finally did and asked that he be put to death. Only a lunatic would ignore repeated warnings and take the chance he took. He was crucified as a result of his lunacy.

3. There are many many verses where he is called Lord.

So we have the trilemma, Lord, Liar and a Lunatic.

Please understand even though I am applying critical thinking and textual criticism. What is revealed to me by reading God's word in the Bible is what makes such discussions possible.

 

[sincerly]

Jesus is many things to many people. Jesus also made many claims.

But what was Jesus according to the scriptures? Was Jesus Lord, liar and a Lunatic and not The trinity God, Son and Spirit?

Another trinity is supported in the same scriptures, according to C.S. Lewis.

The fact that there are so many references by Jesus to his various titles and as a 30 year old man was unmarried, did not hold a job and every sentence that came out of his mouth praised God. Jesus performed miracles, raised the dead and healed people. Jesus was found guilty of blasphemy and asked to be crucified. Can theses attributes of Jesus suggest an alternate triune of personalities a more morbid trinity of sorts suggesting Jesus was Lord, Liar and Lunatic, all three in One. Sorry, textual criticism.

Scripture proving Jesus was Lord, a liar and/or a lunatic.


Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

1. To be put to death one had to be a false prophet. Jesus was put to death for claiming to be something he was not. That is falsehood or lying.

2. Knowing it is already commanded by God to Moses not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death. Jesus was threatened with stoning for blaspheming several times, he even had to slip away and hide from the mob. But he did not stop calling himself their messiah and Christ. He knew the scriptures as well as the Jews and yet he defied them to follow through which they finally did and asked that he be put to death. Only a lunatic would ignore repeated warnings and take the chance he took. He was crucified as a result of his lunacy.

3. There are many many verses where he is called Lord.

So we have the trilemma, Lord, Liar and a Lunatic.

Please understand even though I am applying critical thinking and textual criticism. What is revealed to me by reading God's word in the Bible is what makes such discussions possible.

HK, the only thing you proved is that you do not know or believe the Biblical Scriptures. And Yes, anyone can mangle the scriptures with applying one's own bias.
Those who studied the written Scriptures had the living WORD as a teacher for 3 1/2 years and their conclusion was---Yes, You are the promised Messiah and the SON of the Living GOD.
These Discussions as seen in the Scriptures are to witness to Pilate's question----"what shall I do with Jesus"?
Jesus came (and DID) to fulfill the prophecies concerning HIM

We ,also, see your answer(witness) to the question.

 

[Muffled]

Your incorrect he was the son of God and he son of Mary, according to the catholic tradition. But if you compare it to Roman myth then Jesus would have been a Demi-God like Hercules.

Your text doesn't prove your point unfortunately

A demi-god is a child of an eternal god and a temporal peson. Jesus is the child of a temporal person but He is God in the flesh so He has the ability to be eternal and is stil living after 2000 years.

 

[Muffled]

I don't agree with you.

Regards

Are you saying that your falsohoods are proof that what you say is true. That is a laugh. I believe that thinking my proofs are not adequate is based on a stubborn resistence to proof that is totally irrational.

 

[Muffled]

It is not a person.

I believe I am a person.

 

[Harikrish]

The world is a beautiful place. Don't let a few people who had bad dreams and in them saw apocalyptic visions dictate to the rest of the world how bleak the future is. In the interpretation of dreams Freud found most of the cryptic symbols were repressed sexual fantasies. We know like his Mother Mary, Jesus remained a virgin and at 30 was unmarried, unemployed and hung out with unsavoury characters. One betrayed him and the other denied even knowing him. Jesus was a man with many unsatisfied needs. Any wonder why his dreams were full of explosive violent apocalyptic visions.

 

[Muffled]

The world is a beautiful place. Don't let a few people who had bad dreams and in them saw apocalyptic visions dictate to the rest of the world how bleak the future is. In the interpretation of dreams Freud found most of the cryptic symbols were repressed sexual fantasies. We know like his Mother Mary, Jesus remained a virgin and at 30 was unmarried, unemployed and hung out with unsavoury characters. One betrayed him and the other denied even knowing him. Jesus was a man with many unsatisfied needs. Any wonder why his dreams were full of explosive violent apocalyptic visions.

I beleive there is no evidence that Jesus had dreams or visions.

I believe this is mere speculation.

 

[Robert Lindstrom]

JESUS is the only true God and eternal life.

 

[JayJayDee]

JESUS IN COMPARISON TO ADAM!
adam was created without a father, and supposedly Jesus is born(created) without a father. Then why is it Adam is failed to be mentioned as a begotten son? This word doesn't mean father BUT ORIGINATOR YHWH IS ALONE ORIGINATOR OF THE UNIVERSE WHO IS ALONE.

That could be because Adam was not "begotten" in the same manner as Jesus was. In his pre-human existence, Jesus was "begotten" in the spirit realm, the first and only direct creation of his progenitor, or originator (YHWH) for unknown eons of time before creation even began. (Prov 8:22) The son of God was used as the agency of creation, working side by side with his Father. (Col 1:15, 16; John 1:3) There is only one Creator.

Numbers 23:19 G-D is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it good?

Exactly...God has never been a man. Jesus has.
"No man has ever seen God" according to the apostle John, but many saw Jesus. (John 1:18)

Luke 3:38
[Hnv] 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Shet, the son of Adam, the son of Theos[Greek-god]...

Yes, Adam was also a son of God....a direct creation.

Jesus is called "the last Adam" because the first Adam lost what the last Adam bought back.