Jesus is God?

[Truid]

Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

In the Bible it speaks of the LORD God (YHWH Elohim). Jehovah is not Christ's pre-incarnate name any more than Elohim is God the Father's name. Since both the Father and Son are the same God (or Godhead) then it makes sense they would share the same names (such as Jehovah or Elohim). As a matter of fact, the word elohim can also be referring to false dieties not just the true God.

 

[Muffled]

I think "Josef the prophet" is a member of the Watchtower group aka Jehovah's Witnesses and they teach that Jesus is a mighty god but not God Almighty. Hope that makes sense.

Have they really backed off from saying that Jesus is an angel? Even if they did the JW's can come up with more misconstructions of the BIble than I can keep up with.

I suppose Hel was a mighty god but defintely not a moral one. Of course the Almighty God is also a mighty god is He not? I think the referernce is to the passage in Isaiah which describes the Messiah as Mighty God. That verse also says that the Messiah is the Everlasting Father as well.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is not the only place in scripture where Jehovah is referred to as Mighty God:
Deu 10:17 For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.

 

[GeorgeK]

I believe that YHWH was used in in the old testament to refer to God The Father. Now we also know that when Moses was speaking to God and asking Him what he should call Him, God referred to himself as "I AM". Later, in the New Testament Jesus says "I AM The Son of God" and "I and The Father are one"; therefore if you know the Father, then you must also know Jesus and vice-versa. Now this might sound strange, but if you worship The Father (God) then you worship Jesus too because He is The Son of God. He is also "The King of the Jews" in case anyone has forgotten...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I believe that YHWH was used in in the old testament to refer to God The Father. Now we also know that when Moses was speaking to God and asking Him what he should call Him, God referred to himself as "I AM". Later, in the New Testament Jesus says "I AM The Son of God" and "I and The Father are one"; therefore if you know the Father, then you must also know Jesus and vice-versa. Now this might sound strange, but if you worship The Father (God) then you worship Jesus too because He is The Son of God. He is also "The King of the Jews" in case anyone has forgotten...

This is a weak position here. Try and go through this "OLD" thread and play catch up. I have addressed this. The "I am" you speak of does not mean what you believe it means.

 

[FFH]

Originally Posted by FFH
Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

Can you show where the bible confirms this?

Jesus Christ is the God of the Old and New Testament, Jesus is God the Son, the creator of this world and our bodies, his name is Jehovah.

Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, God the Son, works under the direction of God the Father, who is Elohim.

Exodus 6: 3
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

God the Father's name is Elohim (God)

Eloi (My God).

Mark 15: 34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jesus Christ is the God of the Old and New Testament, Jesus is God the Son, the creator of this world and our bodies, his name is Jehovah.

Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, God the Son, works under the direction of God the Father, who is Elohim.

Exodus 6: 3
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

God the Father's name is Elohim (God)

Eloi (My God).

Mark 15: 34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The biblical Yeshua no where in the NT refers to himself nor does he hint that he is "God the son".....This is strictly your interpretation.

 

[lockyfan]

Have they really backed off from saying that Jesus is an angel? Even if they did the JW's can come up with more misconstructions of the BIble than I can keep up with.

I suppose Hel was a mighty god but defintely not a moral one. Of course the Almighty God is also a mighty god is He not? I think the referernce is to the passage in Isaiah which describes the Messiah as Mighty God. That verse also says that the Messiah is the Everlasting Father as well.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is not the only place in scripture where Jehovah is referred to as Mighty God:
Deu 10:17 For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.

I prefer how the New World Translation puts it:

For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,

rather than sounding cold and heartless as he does in your version "the terrible, who regardeth not persons" he sounds more a being that should hold your respect and admiration for not backing down and not being one to be easily bought, as with so many rulers of todays system.

Genesis 17:1 When A′bram got to be ninety-nine years old, then Jehovah appeared to A′bram and said to him: “I am God Almighty. Walk before me and prove yourself faultless

here he is God ALmighty.


And of course the being who takes sin away from human is going to be a Everlasting father, but it does not say Almighty father does it? see the difference is one of showing that God and Jesus are not the same "god head"but are two completly different beings. One is and always will be aka the alpha and the omega, but the other is the being that was put incharge of things by the higher power.

 

[sojourner]

This argument is based upon misnomers. We need to understand and get our nomenclature straight before any of this makes sense.

"Jehovah" is nothing more than a German literary device, utilized to make something pronounceable out of the tetragrammaton YHWH. It combines YHWH with Elohim.

YHWH is the Hebrew name for God. El comes from the ancient Canaanite term for God, borrowed by the later Hebrews. Elohim is the plural form of El. Elohim is understood more as "the heavenly court," and is what is translated in English as "God." YHWH is translated in English as "LORD."

They come from different ancient traditions, and were combined by the several Biblical authors. They both refer to the creator God.

In no place in the NT is Jesus referred to, or thought of, as one and the same as Jehovah. Jehovah is "God-the-Father."

 

[Ronald]

This argument is based upon misnomers. We need to understand and get our nomenclature straight before any of this makes sense.

"Jehovah" is nothing more than a German literary device, utilized to make something pronounceable out of the tetragrammaton YHWH. It combines YHWH with Elohim.

YHWH is the Hebrew name for God. El comes from the ancient Canaanite term for God, borrowed by the later Hebrews. Elohim is the plural form of El. Elohim is understood more as "the heavenly court," and is what is translated in English as "God." YHWH is translated in English as "LORD."

They come from different ancient traditions, and were combined by the several Biblical authors. They both refer to the creator God.

In no place in the NT is Jesus referred to, or thought of, as one and the same as Jehovah. Jehovah is "God-the-Father."

Amen!
The word/Torah made flesh and dwelt among us.
Firstborn of all creation/word/Torah spoken by Y H V H and the universe was.
To make an echad Y H V H into two or three persons is never on the pages of the "word of God", only in your dreams.(not you sojourner) believers of a lie.

Shalom, Baruch Hashem.

 

[lockyfan]

T
In no place in the NT is Jesus referred to, or thought of, as one and the same as Jehovah. Jehovah is "God-the-Father."

Exactly.

Jesus is his son. ButJesus is also called an everlasting father, becasue through him we gain everlasting life.

Amen!
The word/Torah made flesh and dwelt among us.
Firstborn of all creation/word/Torah spoken by Y H V H and the universe was.
To make an echad Y H V H into two or three persons is never on the pages of the "word of God", only in your dreams.(not you sojourner) believers of a lie.

Shalom, Baruch Hashem.

YHVH is Jehovah as I pronounce it and is the being that created Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

ButJesus is also called an everlasting father, becasue through him we gain everlasting life.

[a] father is not the same as [the] Father.

YHVH is Jehovah as I pronounce it and is the being that created Jesus.

Jesus was not created. Jesus was begotten.

 

[lockyfan]

[a] father is not the same as [the] Father.

Did i say he was The Father, no I didnt.

Do you believe in the trinity?

Jesus was not created. Jesus was begotten.

Revelation 3:14
the beginning of the creation by God

Proverbs 8:22
“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;


Jesus was created by God

 

[sojourner]

Did i say he was The Father, no I didnt.

Do you believe in the trinity?



Revelation 3:14
the beginning of the creation by God

Proverbs 8:22
“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;


Jesus was created by God

These are pretty, but they are not cogent to the argument. They just don't help your case in any way.

 

[lockyfan]

Ah ok really, so you saying him being begotten then me saying in those that he was actually created says to you that it doesnt prove anything, but in reality they are one and the same thing. Begotten meaning created and Jesus actually then created everything else, to Gods Design and Instructions.

Now, do you believe in the trinity. stop dodging this? I would like to know. Do you believe that Jesus is God and if you have already answered please direct me to the post. thank you

 

[sojourner]

Ah ok really, so you saying him being begotten then me saying in those that he was actually created says to you that it doesnt prove anything, but in reality they are one and the same thing. Begotten meaning created and Jesus actually then created everything else, to Gods Design and Instructions.

Now, do you believe in the trinity. stop dodging this? I would like to know. Do you believe that Jesus is God and if you have already answered please direct me to the post. thank you

There's a big theological difference between being begotten by God and being one of God's creatures. Jesus was begotten. Not created "out of the dust." "Begotten" and "created" are not the same thing. At all.

I've never dodged this question. It's always been very, very apparent that I'm a Trinitarian through and through. I not only believe in the Trinity...I've seen it!

 

[lockyfan]

Who said he was created out of dust? no one said he was created out of dust.

He was created yes, but not out of dust

there are other ways to create something, Just liek the universe is different to the earth and they both were created by Jehovah God through Jesus.

How can you have seen the trinity?

 

[sojourner]

Who said he was created out of dust? no one said he was created out of dust.

He was created yes, but not out of dust

there are other ways to create something, Just liek the universe is different to the earth and they both were created by Jehovah God through Jesus.

How can you have seen the trinity?

We are created from the dust. That's what the Bible says. It's a fundamental way of theologically understanding our relationship to God. But Jesus wasn't part of that action. Therefore, our theological understanding Jesus' relationship to God is different than our own relationship to God.

We get our understanding of Jesus' begettedness in the Lukan gospel. Our understanding is that God begat Jesus, and did not create Jesus the way God created other human beings.

I see the Creator at work in the universe. I see the Redeemer living in our relationships with each other. I see theSustainer at work in me and in the Church. It's all God.

 

[Muffled]

Have they really backed off from saying that Jesus is an angel? Even if they did the JW's can come up with more misconstructions of the BIble than I can keep up with.

I suppose Hel was a mighty god but defintely not a moral one. Of course the Almighty God is also a mighty god is He not? I think the referernce is to the passage in Isaiah which describes the Messiah as Mighty God. That verse also says that the Messiah is the Everlasting Father as well.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.



I prefer how the New World Translation puts it:

For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,

rather than sounding cold and heartless as he does in your version "the terrible, who regardeth not persons" he sounds more a being that should hold your respect and admiration for not backing down and not being one to be easily bought, as with so many rulers of todays system.

Genesis 17:1 When A′bram got to be ninety-nine years old, then Jehovah appeared to A′bram and said to him: “I am God Almighty. Walk before me and prove yourself faultless

here he is God ALmighty.


And of course the being who takes sin away from human is going to be a Everlasting father, but it does not say Almighty father does it? see the difference is one of showing that God and Jesus are not the same "god head"but are two completly different beings. One is and always will be aka the alpha and the omega, but the other is the being that was put incharge of things by the higher power.

How many everlasting Fathers do you think there are? I know of only one who is the creator of all things (An attribution of Jesus as well). Everything and everyone else did not exist until God created them and are not everlasting.

No and it doesn't have to since the term everlasting Father is used. Perhaps the difference is the finiteness of God in a body (mighty God instead of Almighty God). The Father can see everything but the body can only see what is in front of it. The Almighty Father can do anything but the body can only do worldly things and is easily buffeted and pierced with thorns, nails and a spear. No-one should ever say that God is a human body but He is in the body of Jesus and He is one, so all the power of the Father is there also.

This is somewhat like the argument that God is infinite so He can't be in Jesus because you can't fit the infinite into the finite. However it is the very infinity of God that allows Him to be in Jesus or shall we say that there is someplace that God can't exist? Then the universalists will say that God is in all of us which is true but not in the same sense of dwelling. The dwelling takes place when the spirit does not just exist in the body but also controls it.

 

[Muffled]

There's a big theological difference between being begotten by God and being one of God's creatures. Jesus was begotten. Not created "out of the dust." "Begotten" and "created" are not the same thing. At all.

I've never dodged this question. It's always been very, very apparent that I'm a Trinitarian through and through. I not only believe in the Trinity...I've seen it!

There has always been a problem with the duality that is Jesus, divine nature and human nature. The divine nature which is the indwelling Spirit of God is everlasting and the creator of all things. The physical body was both a begetting and a cration unless you want to disavow the virgin birth. It is a begetting by dint of the use of a human ova and it is a creation because no sperm was present from the father and yet there was a conception. Whether a sperm ws created or a cration took place in the ova to make it a conception only God knows but it can be none other than a creation to attain to the conception.

 

[sojourner]

There has always been a problem with the duality that is Jesus, divine nature and human nature. The divine nature which is the indwelling Spirit of God is everlasting and the creator of all things. The physical body was both a begetting and a cration unless you want to disavow the virgin birth. It is a begetting by dint of the use of a human ova and it is a creation because no sperm was present from the father and yet there was a conception. Whether a sperm ws created or a cration took place in the ova to make it a conception only God knows but it can be none other than a creation to attain to the conception.

I think you've got it backward. It would be part of creation if the usual, physical means of human procreation were employed (as in the ova). it would be a spiritual begetting because there was no sperm present.
But I think I generally agree with your statement. However, I think that the "begetting" part really has nothing to do with the virgin birth event, but derives, rather, from the statement in John's prologue that Jesus was in the beginning with God. It probably also derives from the hymn in Philippians 2.