Jesus has a God!

[TrueBeliever37]

There's ONE GOD MANIFESTED IN THREE PERSONS. THAT'S BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY.

Did you ever have an answer for these?

Jesus Must be Jehovah

John 1:23 quotes Isaiah 40:3 as saying John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the LORD (Jehovah). John prepared the way before Jesus so Jesus must be LORD (Jehovah).

In Isaiah 44:8 God is the only Rock. Psalm 18:31 says, “Who is the Rock except our God”? I Corinthians 10:4, identifies Jesus as the Rock. Jesus must also then be God the Rock.

Isaiah 44:24 says that God (Jehovah) is the one who has made all things. Colossians 1:16, speaking of Christ, says that “all things were created by Him and for him”. Jesus must therefore be Jehovah God.

In Jeremiah 10:10 it says “the LORD (Jehovah) is the true God”. I John 5:20 states that Jesus is the “true God”. Jesus must be the true God.

Isaiah 43:10,11 says that “I, even I, am the LORD; and there is no savior besides Me. Jesus is the Savior (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc., etc.). Jesus must be God the Savior.

Jehovah knows all things (Psalm 147:5). Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23). Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13). Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:10). Only God is the sanctifier of men. Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our peace (Judges 6:23). Jesus is our peace (Ephesians 2:14). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6). Jesus is our righteousness. (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be delivered / snatched out of His hand (Deuteronomy 32:39). Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters” (Ezekiel 43:2). Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters” (Revelation 1:15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is present everywhere.(Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27); Jesus is omnipresent (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s nature does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8).

Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve”(2 Kings 17:35); Jesus (identified as the Creator in Colossians 1:16-17) is to be served (Colossians 3:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy (Isaiah 8:12b-13). Jesus, as Lord, is to be set apart as holy (1 Peter 3:14b-15a).

Jehovah’s glory is not to be given to another (Isaiah 42:8). Jesus shares Jehovah’s glory (John 17:5). Jesus must be Jehovah.

God’s name is Jehovah (or Yahweh—YHWH – Isaiah 42:8). Jesus has Jehovah’s name (John 17:11; John 16:14-15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “mighty God” (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21). Jesus is the “mighty God”
(Isaiah 9:6) who is “Almighty” (Revelation 1:7-8).

Jehovah is “the first and the last” (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12). Jesus is the “first and the last” (Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s title is “the Holy One” (Isaiah 47:4). Jesus is “the Holy One” (Acts 3:14; John 6:69). Jesus must be Jehovah, the Holy One.

Jehovah is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (Isaiah 8:13-15). Jesus is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (1 Peter 2:6-8). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great “shepherd” who leads his people to “the spring of the water of life” (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus as the “shepherd” of His people, leads them “to springs of the water of life” (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17). THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD –John 10:16.

Jehovah is “Lord of Lords” (Deuteronomy 10:17). Jesus is “Lord of Lords.” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16). The Father is Lord of all (Matthew 11:25; Acts 17:24). Jesus is “Lord of all.” (Acts 10:36). THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD (Jude 4) .

Jehovah created the universe (Psalm 102:25-27). Jesus created the universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-19; Hebrews 1:10-12). THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR. (Isaiah 44:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

You must not have understood my post. I don't need an answer for these scriptures, because they prove my main point - the Messiah was YHWH manifest in the flesh. Remember I said (There is only one God, and he took on flesh, and shed blood for man's sin.) The problem is you think it was a second person, whereas I am saying it was YHWH himself. See the difference?

There is only one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And that one God is a Spirit - not 3 persons. John 4:24

And there is only one Spirit of God according to scripture. Ephesians 4:4 and 1 Corinthians 12:11

The Holy Spirit is not a third person in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is YHWH, it's not another Spirit or another person. YHWH said, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Joel 2:28 , Acts 2:17-18
You are the temple of God 1 Corinthians 3:16
You are the temple of the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 6:19
You are the temple of the living God: as God hath said, I will dwell in them. 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 So the Holy Spirit that dwells in his people, is YHWH dwelling in them.

Further proof: She (Mary) was found with child of the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit is the Father. Matthew 1:18 , and Matthew 1:20 Can you not see how the Holy Spirit is the Father, and not another person?

Now the question remains of the relationship of the Father and the Son. The prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 was that the son to be born would be called the mighty God, and the everlasting Father.
The son said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. How could he say that? - Because it was YHWH dwelling in that body. Proof scriptures follow:
God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily. Colossians 2:9
He is the image of the invisible God. Colossians 1:14-15 And remember, there is a big difference, in being made in the image of God, and actually being the image of God.
The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:10
He that hateth me hateth my Father also. But now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. John 15:23-24

The Father is the eternal Spirit, while the Son is the flesh. NOT 2 separate persons but a distinction between Spirit and flesh.
When he said my Father is greater than I - yes the Spirit is greater than the flesh.
When he prayed - it was the flesh crying out to the Spirit for strength to overcome, just like we have to do.
When he said he was before Abraham, the flesh didn't even exist before Abraham, but the Spirit did.

Now to try to answer this actual OP.
YHWH is the God of all flesh. Jeremiah 32:27 Even the flesh of the Messiah. That was why he could say he had a God. The son (the flesh) also had to be obedient to the will of the eternal Spirit. Otherwise it would not be a perfect sacrifice for man's sins. But it was still YHWH dwelling in that body. God (the eternal Spirit) didn't die, but the Son (the flesh) he took on did.

 

[JJ50]

You must not have understood my post. I don't need an answer for these scriptures, because they prove my main point - the Messiah was YHWH manifest in the flesh. Remember I said (There is only one God, and he took on flesh, and shed blood for man's sin.) The problem is you think it was a second person, whereas I am saying it was YHWH himself. See the difference?

There is only one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And that one God is a Spirit - not 3 persons. John 4:24

And there is only one Spirit of God according to scripture. Ephesians 4:4 and 1 Corinthians 12:11

The Holy Spirit is not a third person in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is YHWH, it's not another Spirit or another person. YHWH said, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Joel 2:28 , Acts 2:17-18
You are the temple of God 1 Corinthians 3:16
You are the temple of the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 6:19
You are the temple of the living God: as God hath said, I will dwell in them. 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 So the Holy Spirit that dwells in his people, is YHWH dwelling in them.

Further proof: She (Mary) was found with child of the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit is the Father. Matthew 1:18 , and Matthew 1:20 Can you not see how the Holy Spirit is the Father, and not another person?

Now the question remains of the relationship of the Father and the Son. The prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 was that the son to be born would be called the mighty God, and the everlasting Father.
The son said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. How could he say that? - Because it was YHWH dwelling in that body. Proof scriptures follow:
God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily. Colossians 2:9
He is the image of the invisible God. Colossians 1:14-15 And remember, there is a big difference, in being made in the image of God, and actually being the image of God.
The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:10
He that hateth me hateth my Father also. But now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. John 15:23-24

The Father is the eternal Spirit, while the Son is the flesh. NOT 2 separate persons but a distinction between Spirit and flesh.
When he said my Father is greater than I - yes the Spirit is greater than the flesh.
When he prayed - it was the flesh crying out to the Spirit for strength to overcome, just like we have to do.
When he said he was before Abraham, the flesh didn't even exist before Abraham, but the Spirit did.

Now to try to answer this actual OP.
YHWH is the God of all flesh. Jeremiah 32:27 Even the flesh of the Messiah. That was why he could say he had a God. The son (the flesh) also had to be obedient to the will of the eternal Spirit. Otherwise it would not be a perfect sacrifice for man's sins. But it was still YHWH dwelling in that body. God (the eternal Spirit) didn't die, but the Son (the flesh) he took on did.

A belief not a fact.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Duh. Mormons believe that Jesus absolutely is Jehovah. They just don't believe that Jehovah is Elohim. Having cleared that matter up, I have nothing more to say. Anyone who refers to my religion as a cult isn't worth trying to have a civil discussion with.

Why would you not believe YHWH is Elohim when he said he was in verses such as Isaiah 45:5? He said I am YHWH and there is no other; apart from me there is no Elohim.

 

[JJ50]

Why would you not believe YHWH is Elohim when he said he was in verses such as Isaiah 45:5? He said I am YHWH and there is no other; apart from me there is no Elohim.

The Bible is only a collection of documents written by very human authors, with no input from any god, imo.

 

[LightofTruth]

Evil is part of human nature, which was supposedly created by god, don't make excuses for it!

Evil is part of human nature, yes. However, human nature would not be evil if there were no laws. Do you understand that?

For example: The law says "thou shall not covet". Which means that a person is not to desire that which does not belong to him. If the law did not say that then to covet thy neighbors stuff would not be evil. It's common sense.

 

[JJ50]

Evil is part of human nature, yes. However, human nature would not be evil if there were no laws. Do you understand that?

That makes no sense at all.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

A belief not a fact.

I am trying to discuss with individuals that believe the scriptures. What I presented was factual based on scriptures. I understand there is nothing I could present you with that you would accept.

I am not trying to force anything on anyone. Just presenting what I think is the truth of the matter.

 

[Katzpur]

Why would you not believe YHWH is Elohim when he said he was in verses such as Isaiah 45:5? He said I am YHWH and there is no other; apart from me there is no Elohim.

Okay, let me just begin by saying that I have no desire to get into a debate with you over this. The KJV states, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me." (It does not say, "apart from me there is no Elohim." You may know of a version that puts it that way, but I rather doubt it.) According to my belief, the person known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament is the same individual known as "Jehovah" in the Old Testament. I don't, however, believe that Jehovah is the same person as Elohim, who is the Almighty Father. I believe that Jehovah (i.e. Jesus Christ, the Son of God) and Elohim are physically distinct from one another, and that, as Jesus told His Apostles, "The father is greater than I." Still, the Bible teaches that they are "one" and the only God we should be worshiping. I see their "oneness" as being in will, purpose, mind and heart. So it would have been entirely appropriate for Jehovah, who is also referred to as God's "Word," to make the statement attributed to Him in Isaiah. Throughout the Old Testament, He speaks on behalf of His Father, (Elohim) and their spiritual unity is absolute. This is my belief. I'm not asking you to see things the same way I do.

 

[LightofTruth]

That makes no sense at all.

I explained it to you.

God did not give His laws to animals. They operate on instinct. it is not against God's law for an animal to take another's mate for themselves. But God has forbidden adultery for His people. He even goes so far as to say that it is not even right to desire your neighbors wife for yourself.

How does that not make sense?

 

[LightofTruth]

Okay, let me just begin by saying that I have no desire to get into a debate with you over this. The KJV states, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me." (It does not say, "apart from me there is no Elohim." You may know of a version that puts it that way, but I rather doubt it.) According to my belief, the person known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament is the same individual known as "Jehovah" in the Old Testament. I don't, however, believe that Jehovah is the same person as Elohim, who is the Almighty Father. I believe that Jehovah (i.e. Jesus Christ, the Son of God) and Elohim are physically distinct from one another, and that, as Jesus told His Apostles, "The father is greater than I." Still, the Bible teaches that they are "one" and the only God we should be worshiping. I see their "oneness" as being in will, purpose, mind and heart. So it would have been entirely appropriate for Jehovah, who is also referred to as God's "Word," to make the statement attributed to Him in Isaiah. Throughout the Old Testament, He speaks on behalf of His Father, (Elohim) and their spiritual unity is absolute. This is my belief. I'm not asking you to see things the same way I do.

The person known as Jesus Christ is the son of YHVH. The son of YHVH is not the person who is YHVH . One person is the Elohim of Jesus and the other person is Jesus, the son of the Elohim.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Okay, let me just begin by saying that I have no desire to get into a debate with you over this. The KJV states, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me." (It does not say, "apart from me there is no Elohim." You may know of a version that puts it that way, but I rather doubt it.) According to my belief, the person known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament is the same individual known as "Jehovah" in the Old Testament. I don't, however, believe that Jehovah is the same person as Elohim, who is the Almighty Father. I believe that Jehovah (i.e. Jesus Christ, the Son of God) and Elohim are physically distinct from one another, and that, as Jesus told His Apostles, "The father is greater than I." Still, the Bible teaches that they are "one" and the only God we should be worshiping. I see their "oneness" as being in will, purpose, mind and heart. So it would have been entirely appropriate for Jehovah, who is also referred to as God's "Word," to make the statement attributed to Him in Isaiah. Throughout the Old Testament, He speaks on behalf of His Father, (Elohim) and their spiritual unity is absolute. This is my belief. I'm not asking you to see things the same way I do.

Hi Katzpur,
Okay,
It basically says the same thing using KJV wording. I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no Elohim beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me. Isaiah 45:5
My point was the Hebrew has YHWH saying there is no other Elohim but him. Elohim is the Hebrew word for God. You said he is not Elohim, but he says he is, and that there is no other.

There are many verses I could give, but we won't debate it since you have no desire too.

 

[Spartan]

Duh. Mormons believe that Jesus absolutely is Jehovah. They just don't believe that Jehovah is Elohim. Having cleared that matter up, I have nothing more to say. Anyone who refers to my religion as a cult isn't worth trying to have a civil discussion with.

Mormonism is a cult. Any organization that believes that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer - as Mormons believe - is most definitely a cult.

What's more Biblical Christianity teaches that Jesus was ALWAYS GOD, and didn't BECOME GOD. Nor can mortal men become Gods.

 

[Katzpur]

The person known as Jesus Christ is the son of YHVH. The son of YHVH is not the person who is YHVH . One person is the Elohim of Jesus and the other person is Jesus, the son of the Elohim.

I disagree.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Katzpur,
Okay,
It basically says the same thing using KJV wording. I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no Elohim beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me. Isaiah 45:5
My point was the Hebrew has YHWH saying there is no other Elohim but him. Elohim is the Hebrew word for God. You said he is not Elohim, but he says he is, and that there is no other.

No, He didn't say, "I am Elohim." He said He is God and I believe He is. I said He wasn't the same individual as Elohim. I believe both Jehovah and and Elohim share the title of "God," but they are not the same individual.

There are many verses I could give, but we won't debate it since you have no desire too.

Yeah, you might as well not bother, since we're neither one going to be persuaded to change our point of view. See, the reason I'm not interested in debating you is because you have a habit of stating your understanding as if it were fact. It's not. It's your understanding or interpretation of scripture, just as mine is. That's why I always make a point of saying, "I believe..." or "According to my understanding..." or "To my way of thinking..." You say, essentially, "Here's how it is and if you disagree, you're wrong."

 

[Katzpur]

Mormonism is a cult. Any organization that believes that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer - as Mormons believe - is most definitely a cult.

Whatever. If name-calling floats your boat, by all means, knock yourself out, pal. I don't know what makes you think your opinion matters in the slightest, or that you can push any of my buttons with your evangelical ranting, but I'm lost past being offended by that kind of juvenile behavior.

What's more Biblical Christianity teaches that Jesus was ALWAYS GOD, and didn't BECOME GOD.

So does Mormonism. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Your knowledge of Mormon doctrine is as a drop of water in the ocean when compared to mine.

 

[LightofTruth]

Mormonism is a cult. Any organization that believes that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer - as Mormons believe - is most definitely a cult.

What's more Biblical Christianity teaches that Jesus was ALWAYS GOD, and didn't BECOME GOD. Nor can mortal men become Gods.

Biblical Christianity is not absurdity. Trinitarianism is absurdity.

Jesus has a God and therefore he is not a Trinitarian. Nor were any of his disciples Trinitarian.

Your explanation for Jesus having a God is absurdity and most Trinitarians would not agree with your idea that Jesus has a God because he took upon human nature. If you can't see the absurdity in that then you can't be led to Biblical Christianity which has no absurdities because God doesn't speak absurdly..

 

[JJ50]

Biblical Christianity is not absurdity. Trinitarianism is absurdity.

Jesus has a God and therefore he is not a Trinitarian. Nor were any of his disciples Trinitarian.

Your explanation for Jesus having a God is absurdity and most Trinitarians would not agree with your idea that Jesus has a God because he took upon human nature. If you can't see the absurdity in that then you can't be led to Biblical Christianity which has no absurdities because God doesn't speak absurdly..

No doubt you think you have the elusive 'truth', whereas Trinitarians think they have it. No one has the 'truth' about the existence of any god.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

No, He didn't say, "I am Elohim." He said He is God and I believe He is. I said He wasn't the same individual as Elohim. I believe both Jehovah and and Elohim share the title of "God," but they are not the same individual.

Sorry Katzpur, but if he said he is God, then it is the same thing as saying he is Elohim. Because God is the word Elohim translated into English. You can believe what you want, but he said he was Elohim in the original language.

If you believe two different individuals share the title of God, then how is that not a belief in multiple Gods?

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry Katzpur, but if he said he is God, then it is the same thing as saying he is Elohim.

Never apologize for telling me I'm wrong and you're right. If it's something to be sorry for, just don't do it in the first place.

Because God is the word Elohim translated into English. You can believe what you want, but he said he was.[/quote]"Elohim" is also a name by which God the Father is known.

If you believe two different individuals share the title of God, then how is that not a belief in multiple Gods?

Because they are "one" in all that matters. No further comments from me.

 

[JJ50]

Never apologize for telling me I'm wrong and you're right. If it's something to be sorry for, just don't do it in the first place.

Because God is the word Elohim translated into English. You can believe what you want, but he said he was.

"Elohim" is also a name by which God the Father is known.

Because they are "one" in all that matters. No further comments from me.[/QUOTE]

A belief not a fact.