Yes, that is what they were trying to do. Not all versions, just that one. Most likel it was some of the author's commentary they found 'offensive'.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Facing Tough Days Ahead for Breaking Russian Law
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
The other thing not mentioned is the occasional end result ... conversion. And the problem with conversion is the harm it does to family harmony. Boss has a cousin who was converted to JWs many years back. The tension in the air is just extreme when she's around. My SIL has a converted evangelical brother. He and my atheist brother (her husband) sure pull on her in two different directions. If the poor guy cracks a couple of beers to share with friends, he has to hear about it (oh, the sinning) for half an hour.
So proselytising is like shooting bullets. Conversion is when it hits a person. Proselytizing in itself may not seem harmful, but the intended result sure is.
So proselytising is like shooting bullets. Conversion is when it hits a person. Proselytizing in itself may not seem harmful, but the intended result sure is.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Then there's also the "no allegiance to host government" that they've got. I mean, you can't reject the government of the country that you live in and then expect them to have your back.
JWs 'reject' government everywhere, but I believe pay their taxes to avoid going to jail. Not sure though, how well they actually understand how taxes and government works.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Worth noting, that Moscow Times is a pro-Western newspaper, definitely not a pro-Russian one.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are actively trying to curb non-established religions in Russia. Other targets have been pagans, shamanists etc.
Yes, they pay taxes. But they will not register to vote or for military service.
As others have said, I'm very much not a fan of JW doctrine and the Watchtower organization, but I also am very much not a fan of religious censorship. This finds the line, takes a running start, and leaps over it. In the words of Evelyn Beatrice Hall, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Sounds like you're arguing against people converting to different religions and not following family traditions for the sake of cohesion. Very similar to the "stay together for the kids" argument.
The ban is just an attempt to restrict free speech.
Expressing an opinion is not like firing bullets if done in a mature way and people need to grow up and learn to tolerate what is different, which can't be done if minorities are afraid to express themselves.
Might is not necessarily right.
Expressing an opinion is not like firing bullets if done in a mature way and people need to grow up and learn to tolerate what is different, which can't be done if minorities are afraid to express themselves.
Might is not necessarily right.
I find the JW bashing in this thread to be quite sad. Religious persecution is religious persecution, regardless of whether you personally like the sect or not. Either we're all allowed to live in freedom and have a marketplace of ideas or none of us deserve it.
I tend to agree with you and with Hall, but they take that right away from each other because they are not allowed to disagree publically with what is being taught presently. If someone of Jehovah's Witnesses speaks anything contrary to what is presently JW doctrine, he or she will be silenced by his or her disfellowshipping. To communicate spiritual matters with a disfellowshipped person can cause another disfellowshipping. THEY believe very strictly in censorship.
Indeed I am. But if the convert convinces the family that its all right, and doesn't come around preaching, it does far less harm to family harmony. It's only nasty in the aggressive evangelical robust versions of religion. I still see family as a strong unit and force that larger society harmony builds on.
That just doesn't justify a ban. Any more than a company being free to fire someone for speaking contrary to the company's policy.
Trying to pull something like this even with religions more extreme than JWs won't help. It will just drive them underground where radicalization is easier, and gives them the comfort of 'We're being oppressed that must make us right.' It also makes those who feel like they're trapped in the church less likely to seek outside aid. All in all, I'd rather they'd run in the open then run underground.
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The need for respect in such situations is a responsibility belonging to all sides, not just the ones converting away from some family tradition.
Agreed. And of course there are lots of situations where it's extreme enough to be a great relief on either side.
"Thank God I got out of there!"
or "Thank God he's gone!"
But neither of those comments are indicative of any family harmony to start with.
All of JW's, regardless of nationality, operate under one law....God's law. The Bible regulates everything we do, including the right to eject from our ranks those who want to sow the seeds of discord......something the Bible says, God hates. If people want to disagree, they are free to leave.
We are an international brotherhood who follow the example of the Master in preaching to people about the best government the world could ever have....God's kingdom. As citizens of that heavenly government, we do not need to obey any other government when they try to force us to disobey the only Sovereign ruler we have. But having said that, we are also expected to be exemplary in our behaviour.....in upholding the laws of the land, honestly paying our taxes, and teaching others to live moral lives, because we benefit from government programs like everyone else. We drive on their roads and are educated in their schools and are treated in their hospitals when we are sick.....so there can never be accusations of us not being law-abiding in all the necessary ways. You will not find Jehovah's Witnesses in jail unless they were preached to in prison and chose to dedicate their life to God and leave their former ways behind. We have many wonderful stories of this happening. Former gang members and murderers are now humble servants of God preaching to their fellow inmates about the benefits of living a godly life.
When the media reports stories about us, it very much depends on the reporters own perceptions of who we are and what we do, so that it can reflect either strong prejudice or empathy for our situation. Whether we acknowledge it or not, our perceptions of things are affected a great deal by how the media presents its "facts".
Those who know Jehovah's Witnesses, can see through the propaganda and understand a miscarriage of justice when they see it.
Having our meeting places raided as if we were some kind of threat to national security is ridiculous. Our numbers are so low in Russia (175,000 out of over 125 million) that we are no threat even by refusing to join the military. Many are too old to be of use to them anyway.
We are taught to love even our enemies, so how could we take up weapons to kill our fellow humans? If all of Russia's citizens were like JW's their government would prosper by needing no police, no jails and no courts.
When the first Christians were persecuted, they went underground and flourished. Many of our brothers and sisters who were sent to Siberia as punishment in times past, preached the Christian message and now there are many congregations in Siberia as a result. When something has God's backing, it cannot be stopped by tyranny. (Acts 5:34-39)
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
See, and it's statements like this that make me wonder if there's more going on here than "big bad Mother Russia" hunting down poor harmless Witnesses.
Now this is the kind of prejudiced nonsense that apostates and opposers are noted for.
The fact that a person disagrees with what we believe will indicate that they should go and seek their truth some place else...unless of course they want to convert the whole brotherhood to their way of thinking, because they are right and everyone else is wrong.
JW's do not disagree with what is taught. If they do, then they should leave. No one is forced to stay against their will.
Proverbs 6:16-19 NASB
"There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19 A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers."
We don't welcome people like that......neither does God.
If any family member who has left our ranks, wants to bad mouth our brotherhood, we won't associate with them. (Matthew 10:34-37) We make no apology for that. Slander is poison.
We know about divided loyalties and where that can lead.....Adam fell for that one and we have been living with the consequences ever since.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Disfellowshiping seems to be exactly what you decry as "prejudiced nonsense."