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"JEHOVAH'S" witnesses and Revelation 12:17

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
JW's pride themselves for being the only ones who make God's Name known, being witnesses for Jehovah. Which, I admire in them. Not the pride and boasting, but the fire they have for doing what they honestly believe they should be doing.

My question is this: If they/we are truly supposed to have the "WORK OF BEARING WITNESSES CONCERNING JEHOVAH", why does the dragon in Revelation 12:17 wage war on the ones, "who observe the commandments of God and "HAVE THE WORK OF BEARING WITNESS CONCERNING JESUS"?

Rev 12:17 (NWT) 17 So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
JW's pride themselves for being the only ones who make God's Name known, being witnesses for Jehovah. Which, I admire in them. Not the pride and boasting, but the fire they have for doing what they honestly believe they should be doing.

My question is this: If they/we are truly supposed to have the "WORK OF BEARING WITNESSES CONCERNING JEHOVAH", why does the dragon in Revelation 12:17 wage war on the ones, "who observe the commandments of God and "HAVE THE WORK OF BEARING WITNESS CONCERNING JESUS"?

Rev 12:17 (NWT) 17 So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."

I just have one question, and Im trying not to do this too. Why do you talk ill about this and maybe other denomni that disagree with your interpretation of scripture?

Arent they not brothers and sisters of christ as you are?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Arent they not brothers and sisters of christ as you are?

Thank you for your reply Carlita. I don't know if you are a JW or have studied with them or know anything about their religion/organization, but if you study the WT teachings you'll see that only 144,000 of the millions of witnesses that has ever lived since Pentecost have the Spirit of Christ. The rest of them only have an earthly hope. But the Bible says in Romans 8:9

Rom 8:9 (ESVST) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

In their teachings, only the Spirit anointed can partake of the Body and Blood of Jesus, so the "little flock" as they call it do not have the Spirit. So to answer your question, no, the JW's are not brothers and sisters of Christ. You can research their teachings, they also claim that "ONLY" the anointed (the 144,000) are Jesus' brothers and sisters. The little flock only benefit from Christs sacrifice to live on earth. (I'm sorry, I meant that "ONLY" the little flock has the anointing)
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thank you for your reply Carlita. I don't know if you are a JW or have studied with them or know anything about their religion/organization, but if you study the WT teachings you'll see that only 144,000 of the millions of witnesses that has ever lived since Pentecost have the Spirit of Christ. The rest of them only have an earthly hope. But the Bible says in Romans 8:9

Rom 8:9 (ESVST) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

In their teachings, only the Spirit anointed can partake of the Body and Blood of Jesus, so the "little flock" as they call it do not have the Spirit. So to answer your question, no, the JW's are not brothers and sisters of Christ. You can research their teachings, they also claim that "ONLY" the anointed (the 144,000) are Jesus' brothers and sisters. The little flock only benefit from Christs sacrifice to live on earth.

I have two JW friends. I dont see how those verses descredits them being a child of Christ. Maybe in your interpretation of scripture, they are wrong. That doesnt make them lesser of a brother than you are to them (Of course, they would disagree with me too)

Interesting observation.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I have two JW friends. I dont see how those verses descredits them being a child of Christ. Maybe in your interpretation of scripture, they are wrong. That doesnt make them lesser of a brother than you are to them (Of course, they would disagree with me too)

You don't see how that verse discredits them from being a child of Christ? What does ( in your interpretation), "Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ "DOES NOT" belong to Him" mean then? Can one be a child of Christ and "NOT" belong to Him?



Where do our blessings and eternal life come from? The Jehovah's witnesses, or Jesus? They teach that only 144,000 have the Spirit and are children of God.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You don't see how that verse discredits them from being a child of Christ? What does ( in your interpretation), "Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ "DOES NOT" belong to Him" mean then? Can one be a child of Christ and "NOT" belong to Him?



Where do our blessings and eternal life come from? The Jehovah's witnesses, or Jesus? They teach that only 144,000 have the Spirit and are children of God.

Because after reading the bible and listening tonthem talk about their practice and their belief in christ, i see they have more of a sound understanding of scripture than other denomni do. I went to their Hall meetings. It was extensive.

My first post was more saying why descredit them as if they were demons or something. If god is leading them to truth as how you interpret scripture, let god do his thing.

Belittling a persons faith in Christ because you interpret scripture differently is, in my opinion, wrong and disrepectful.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
My first post was more saying why descredit them as if they were demons or something. If god is leading them to truth as how you interpret scripture, let god do his thing.

I only discredit their teaching. If you research their teachings you will see what I mean. I maintain that individual JW's are not demons, but are led by deceitful lying demons. Individual JW's are lured and trapped into this cult by those demons.

These men of the GB teach trash like this:

*** w50 11/15 p. 462 Fraudulent Religious Relics ***
“Supposing it [relic worship] to be in fact spurious,” the Catholic Encyclopedia says, “no dishonor is done to God by the continuance of an error which has been handed down in perfect good faith for many centuries.” How foreign and strange this doctrine to anything written in the Bible! Jehovah is the God of truth! (John 3:33; Rom. 3:4; Heb. 6:18) All error and lies are of the Devil and are certainly a great reproach and dishonor to God. (John 8:44; Rom. 1:25) Consequently, Jehovah is against all such pious frauds that teach lies in His name and He will clean them out at Armageddon.

They use teachings like this to discredit all religions, but in fact do the same thing and justify it by claiming "NEW LIGHT". In this quote they claim that "ALL ERROR" is from the devil and certainly a dishonor to God, except when they teach in error.


*** w64 2/15 p. 103 Does Sincerely Believing Change Wrong into Right? ***
This brief analysis of just a few beliefs of “pagan” and “Christian” religions should show the thinking person that sincerity in believing a doctrine does not change what is wrong into what is right. It does not make it acceptable to God. He cannot condone what is wrong. He cannot bless what is falsehood. He is a God of truth. “It is impossible for God to lie,” states Hebrews 6:18; so surely he would not approve lies even when sincerely taught in his name.

I believe that the rank and file JW's sincerely believed this teaching from the GB, but as they were also taught, "that does not change what is wrong into what is right." Even if the GB sincerely believed it to be true, the fact they they admit it was wrong now, "does not make it acceptable to God."


*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
19 In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. (but they taught that it did begin for 100 years)Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. (but they taught that it did happen for 100 years) Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. (but they taught that He did the appointment for 100 years) So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.

Everything in the above article was taught for over 100 years as "TRUTH" from God. Then in 2013 they say that they were wrong and it hasn't happened yet. So if it's not true now, it never was true, and if it was never true then it was wrong. They say that God "CANNOT" condone what is wrong, so did they have God's backing in their teaching for 100 years, no.

That's the reason for my thread. They are taught that they "HAVE THE WORK" bearing witness concerning Jehovah. But the dragon in Revelation 12:17 is waging war on the ones who "HAVE THE WORK" bearing witness concerning Jesus.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I just have one question, and Im trying not to do this too. Why do you talk ill about this and maybe other denomni that disagree with your interpretation of scripture?

Arent they not brothers and sisters of christ as you are?
I don't understand something.

The Jehovah's Witnesses say that anyone who won't ever become a Jehovah's Witness is not of Christ's family and it seems to be ok with most people that they believe that. But whenever someone on the forum says something similar then the person is "talking ill" about them.

Why don't you ever say that they are talking ill of us?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I only discredit their teaching. If you research their teachings you will see what I mean. I maintain that individual JW's are not demons, but are led by deceitful lying demons. Individual JW's are lured and trapped into this cult by those demons.

These men of the GB teach trash like this:

*** w50 11/15 p. 462 Fraudulent Religious Relics ***
“Supposing it [relic worship] to be in fact spurious,” the Catholic Encyclopedia says, “no dishonor is done to God by the continuance of an error which has been handed down in perfect good faith for many centuries.” How foreign and strange this doctrine to anything written in the Bible! Jehovah is the God of truth! (John 3:33; Rom. 3:4; Heb. 6:18) All error and lies are of the Devil and are certainly a great reproach and dishonor to God. (John 8:44; Rom. 1:25) Consequently, Jehovah is against all such pious frauds that teach lies in His name and He will clean them out at Armageddon.

They use teachings like this to discredit all religions, but in fact do the same thing and justify it by claiming "NEW LIGHT". In this quote they claim that "ALL ERROR" is from the devil and certainly a dishonor to God, except when they teach in error.


*** w64 2/15 p. 103 Does Sincerely Believing Change Wrong into Right? ***
This brief analysis of just a few beliefs of “pagan” and “Christian” religions should show the thinking person that sincerity in believing a doctrine does not change what is wrong into what is right. It does not make it acceptable to God. He cannot condone what is wrong. He cannot bless what is falsehood. He is a God of truth. “It is impossible for God to lie,” states Hebrews 6:18; so surely he would not approve lies even when sincerely taught in his name.

I believe that the rank and file JW's sincerely believed this teaching from the GB, but as they were also taught, "that does not change what is wrong into what is right." Even if the GB sincerely believed it to be true, the fact they they admit it was wrong now, "does not make it acceptable to God."


*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
19 In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. (but they taught that it did begin for 100 years)Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. (but they taught that it did happen for 100 years) Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. (but they taught that He did the appointment for 100 years) So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.

Everything in the above article was taught for over 100 years as "TRUTH" from God. Then in 2013 they say that they were wrong and it hasn't happened yet. So if it's not true now, it never was true, and if it was never true then it was wrong. They say that God "CANNOT" condone what is wrong, so did they have God's backing in their teaching for 100 years, no.

That's the reason for my thread. They are taught that they "HAVE THE WORK" bearing witness concerning Jehovah. But the dragon in Revelation 12:17 is waging war on the ones who "HAVE THE WORK" bearing witness concerning Jesus.

Let me ask a personal question. What is it in you (and ma y other christians) to have such negative like passion against teachings you all personally disagree with? What makes you have that inner fire to put other person's teachinga; their life down?

I am a pagan and a buddha. I disagree with a lot of new age pagan teachings. I also do not resgonate with some types of meditations that a few other schools practice.

I would never say their teachings are false. I would never compare them to mine and claim I have the right pagan teaching and I am the only Buddha who practice correctly.

Thats me. I dont have a fire to descret another person who, in my opinion, are the teachings they live by.

What causes you to have this passion to discredit the teachings of other people when those teachings are not like correcting an algebraic problem. These teachings ARE.JW life.

If they are wrong, let your god decide or approach it in a constructive manner. Throwing verses does not change the intent behind posting them. If anything, they turn people away.

What is behi lnd that passion? Is it part of christianity?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I don't understand something.

The Jehovah's Witnesses say that anyone who won't ever become a Jehovah's Witness is not of Christ's family and it seems to be ok with most people that they believe that. But whenever someone on the forum says something similar then the person is "talking ill" about them.

Why don't you ever say that they are talking ill of us?

I think I have when they were on RF. I had a good debate with one who felt all catholics deserve hell. I try not to talk for others unless they talk to me.

In other words, if a JW said the same, of course Id say they are wrong too. Since im not talking with them, I see no reason to bring them into the convo. That, and both sides have that same ill passion against other faiths. Talking to one side is kind of like talking to the other.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think I have when they were on RF. I had a good debate with one who felt all catholics deserve hell. I try not to talk for others unless they talk to me.

In other words, if a JW said the same, of course Id say they are wrong too. Since im not talking with them, I see no reason to bring them into the convo. That, and both sides have that same ill passion against other faiths. Talking to one side is kind of like talking to the other.
But it isn't about faith where opponents of the JWs are concerned. I do not talk about faith. We can prove they lie and when people lie they abuse something. Abuse is wrong. Isn't it?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Let me ask a personal question. What is it in you (and ma y other christians) to have such negative like passion against teachings you all personally disagree with? What makes you have that inner fire to put other person's teachinga; their life down?

I am a pagan and a buddha. I disagree with a lot of new age pagan teachings. I also do not resgonate with some types of meditations that a few other schools practice.

I would never say their teachings are false. I would never compare them to mine and claim I have the right pagan teaching and I am the only Buddha who practice correctly.

Thats me. I dont have a fire to descret another person who, in my opinion, are the teachings they live by.

What causes you to have this passion to discredit the teachings of other people when those teachings are not like correcting an algebraic problem. These teachings ARE.JW life.

If they are wrong, let your god decide or approach it in a constructive manner. Throwing verses does not change the intent behind posting them. If anything, they turn people away.

What is behi lnd that passion? Is it part of christianity?
What if a person is certain that a particular teaching can and does stubble a little one who puts faith in Christ? Should we be quiet? If yes, then why do you think so?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is the saying, "God chose us to tell the world the truth about God and if you don't believe us God will have nothing to do with you" good or bad in your opinion?

We say it is a crime. What do you think of people who ignore criminal behavior?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Opponents of some teachings of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses believe it is a crime to speak lies in God's Name.

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that it is a crime to decorate your home for a holiday. (that is one of their many, many, many teachings that we must accept or be considered God's enemy).

OK?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Jehovah's Witnesses are driven by the Watchtower to urge their children to accept the faith of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses without question.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing in your opinion?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Back to the topic!

It seems to me that it is the Watchtower which wages war against all those who keep God's commands and who witness Jesus.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
We can prove they lie
The Jehovah's Witnesses are driven by the Watchtower to urge their children to accept the faith of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses without question.

And so were the first-century Chrisians "urged" to accept the guidance of the Apostles, who were unlearned and ordinary. Were they wrong to do so? Or did it help them to maintain unity (1 Corinthians 1:10)?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We can prove they lie


And so were the first-century Chrisians "urged" to accept the guidance of the Apostles, who were unlearned and ordinary. Were they wrong to do so? Or did it help them to maintain unity (1 Corinthians 1:10)?
I do not disagree with writers of the Bible though I do disagree with many translations of what was written. Do you think it is OK that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses liken themselves to the apostles? Why or why not?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Please remember the rule that is true that "no comment" means you are hiding something. Everyone knows that. Hiding is sneaky like a fox or like a devil.
 
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