I've had it up to here...

[Sunstone]

Facts of evolution, phh, evolution is a religion.

I've heard evolution called a religion before. But what makes it a religion? Can you explain why you think evolution is a religion?

 

[cmotdibbler]

Here's a good link with side-to-side comparison of hominid skulls.

The problem with "missing links" is that as soon as you find one, you generate two more.
:banghead3

Transitional Hominid skulls

 

[James the Persian]

What did the dinosaurs like the raptors use those huge claws and sharp teeth for when only vegetation was on the menu? Were plants a lot faster back then?

Frubals for that one - you almost gave me a hernia! I have visions of a leggy cycad tearing it across Pangaea as I write.

James

 

[Scuba Pete]

Missing link??? Are we talking about Pah again?

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

The Bible was never meant as a science book, but a device to bring us to God. Those who decry evolution would do well to remember that God presented a LOT of things in many ways, and some of those ways include gross simplifications of what happened. Why? Because the people of that time could not understand the nuances of God's plan (including DNA and evolution) to create such a wonderful planet. Since the advent of Homo Sapiens, we have continued to evolve not only as a species, but as a society as well. Unlike any other animal, God has enabled us to accumulate knowledge: vast quantities of knowledge. Was this done just to frustrate us? No, but Satan has certainly used evolution to cloud the minds of the saints as to what the battle is really about. He has us tilting at windmills fighting one of God's tools.

You would do well to eschew modern "anti-evolutionism" and follow Paul's example.

I Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. NIV

I would suggest that Paul would become an evolutionist to reach the evolutionists. Don't be guilty of creating stumbling blocks my friend. Evolution is not condemned or even mentioned in the scriptures: it thus has no bearing on salvation.

 

[jewscout]

You must spread more karma around before giving some to goodjewishboy again.

good stuff my friend:bounce

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

with people trying to disprove science with religion and vice/versa. Science is not diametricly opposed to religion. Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive. Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose.

And, I've had it up to here ...

... with people who claim that "Science is not diametricly opposed to religion" while upholding a religion that speaks of a 6-day Creation contra evolution, Global Floods contra geology, a mytic Exodus/Conquest contra archaeology, and a 6,000 year old Earth contra astronomy - and we've just scratched the surface.​

As for "Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive": they most certainly are if by "Creation" you are referring to Genesis.

Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose.

"God did it" is not much of an answer.

 

[Scuba Pete]

"God did it" is not much of an answer.

At least he owns up to his actions!

 

[ch'ang]

Still blows my mind that people still believe in evolution, it really does!

Well here is a little site about industrial melanism, it shows that microevolution is real http://smccd.net/accounts/bucher/melanism.htm

 

[Katzpur]

G-d would not create physcial laws and natural systems if He weren't going to use them.

We have all this physcial evidence for evolution, it's all around us if we use our G-d given brains we can see it.

G-d writes his prophesy in earth itself as well as in the minds of man. With more insight we have in our physcial world, into how everything works can bring us more appreciation of the divine.

I'd just like to quote from a letter to the editor that appeared several years ago in one of the local Salt Lake City daily newspapers. I cut it out and saved it because it so perfectly expressed my perspective on this subject:

"In response to much of the rhetoric we have seen lately concerning creation and evolution, I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to believe that God is the greatest scientist in the universe but that he could not explain some of his high tech processes to people who thought a fig leaf was high tech. Even if he could show Adam the whole truth, how could Adam write that down in terms that the rest of the world would understand without a few thousand years of education?

How do you explain to your children how a gasoline engine works or where rain comes from? Is it possible that you answer this never-ending flow of curiosity with "note quite accurate answers" which are in terms your children will understand?

When God told Adam that he was created from the dust in one day, is it not possible that this answer was his "not totally accurate explanation" in terms that Adam could understand? How would you explain genetics and milleniums to a man who first and greatest creation was disposable underwear harvested from the same tree his food was harvested from?

God didn't just give us a body, he gave us a brain and with that a fair share of curiosity. He knew that knowledge is an eternal progression so he gave us the tools needed to eternally ask and learn the answers to all of life's questions. Line upon line and precept upon precept.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the creator of the laws of the universe must also by his nature live by the laws he has set for us. If not then he would not have commanded us to "Become as I am." If you doubt this then I challenge you to explain microscopic living organisms or genetic blueprints to your 5-year-old. No short cuts, though, just the science."

Thought you'd like that, goodjewishboy.

Kathryn
(goodmormongirl)

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry, but I don't see the missing links, there should be tons. The first chapter of Genesis "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Every subsequent day of creation ends with, "And the evening and the morning were the 2nd day." "And the evening and the morning were the 3rd day." etc. Thus he established what a day was-and re-established every day of creation. So according to Genesis, and God, these were literal days.
He could have done it in a split second, or a long time, but He did it as a pattern for us to rest on the seventh day, and said that's why He did it.
And I don't buy the gap theory because He called his creation "very good" Genesis 1:31. It also says the animals ate the green herb for meat Genesis 1:30. Sin had not entered, and there was no death. Only with sin did death come. You cannot have a "very good" creation with millions of years of death. When it comes to religion, I will stick to the Bible and sit back and let the scientists try to figure it out, smiling.

So when you do believe this all took place, joeboonda? Roughly 6000 years ago?

 

[JerryL]

Even if he could show Adam the whole truth, how could Adam write that down in terms that the rest of the world would understand without a few thousand years of education?

Apparently your cited source is unaware that Adam is not an author of the Torah

 

[Katzpur]

Apparently your cited source is unaware that Adam is not an author of the Torah

My source accepts the Bible as the word of God, not the Torah. That aside, I didn't really get your point. Sorry.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My source accepts the Bible as the word of God, not the Torah.

Now that's classic!

 

[Katzpur]

Now that's classic!

Glad you liked it.

 

[Desert Snake]

with people trying to disprove science with religion and vice/versa. Science is not diametricly opposed to religion. Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive. Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose. Science is concerned with how the world and the universe works. How and Why are two seperate questions. We cannot understand our existance without addressing both questions. Science is not equipped to tell us why we are here, and Religion is woefully inadequate in telling us how it all works.

Lets talk about evolution. Evolution is fact. the mechanisms of evolution are debated, but the fact of it is not because evolution is observable. fossil record has traced birds back to dinosaurs. the archaeoperyx is a creature with scales, teeth, and feathers. If we move to the present day you see animals like the ostridge and emu. they're built to run exactly like dinosaurs were. There are also some species of birds alive today that in the embryonic state they start to develop small shap teeth that do not mature. That in it self is a 'missing link' between the birds of today and dinosaurs of the past. We can see the changes in species millions of years back. We can even look up at the stars and calculate how old they are based on distance and the speed of light.

I've said it before on these forums:

G-d would not create physcial laws and natural systems if He weren't going to use them.

If you want to get theological about it. it makes sence. Say G-d creates life and His goal is to create a being in his image. Through His Will he made the conditions just right for life to occur, this process could take billions of years (in our perception of time) for all the right conditions to occur for life to happen. Once He creates life it still takes hundreds of millions of years for conditions to become such that life can change. The conditions for a single cell to become a multicell organism is probably more complex than the first spark of life. Once life had the ability to change G-d let it do so wildly. The pre-cambrian period had the most dirverse life than any other age. G-d lets the ones with the most potential develop and grow and most of the other life die off in an extinction event. There is evidance of six or seven extinction (add one if you count recent human activity) events in paeleologic record. Every time an extinction event has occured the life that has made it through has become far more complex and developed, but less diverse. Now through millions of years of directing life the first being capable of comprehending G-d arises from all this life that has developed behind him. Perhaps Adam was the first human that was self aware.

We have all this physcial evidence for evolution, it's all around us if we use our G-d given brains we can see it.

G-d writes his prophesy in earth itself as well as in the minds of man. With more insight we have in our physcial world, into how everything works can bring us more appreciation of the divine.

(If any of this is familiar it's cause I took the meat of it from some old posts, my arguement's not changed )

So, ostriches prove evolution. That's nice. Do pickles prove relish?

 

[viole]

with people trying to disprove science with religion and vice/versa. Science is not diametricly opposed to religion. Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive. Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose. Science is concerned with how the world and the universe works. How and Why are two seperate questions. We cannot understand our existance without addressing both questions. Science is not equipped to tell us why we are here, and Religion is woefully inadequate in telling us how it all works.

Lets talk about evolution. Evolution is fact. the mechanisms of evolution are debated, but the fact of it is not because evolution is observable. fossil record has traced birds back to dinosaurs. the archaeoperyx is a creature with scales, teeth, and feathers. If we move to the present day you see animals like the ostridge and emu. they're built to run exactly like dinosaurs were. There are also some species of birds alive today that in the embryonic state they start to develop small shap teeth that do not mature. That in it self is a 'missing link' between the birds of today and dinosaurs of the past. We can see the changes in species millions of years back. We can even look up at the stars and calculate how old they are based on distance and the speed of light.

I've said it before on these forums:

G-d would not create physcial laws and natural systems if He weren't going to use them.

If you want to get theological about it. it makes sence. Say G-d creates life and His goal is to create a being in his image. Through His Will he made the conditions just right for life to occur, this process could take billions of years (in our perception of time) for all the right conditions to occur for life to happen. Once He creates life it still takes hundreds of millions of years for conditions to become such that life can change. The conditions for a single cell to become a multicell organism is probably more complex than the first spark of life. Once life had the ability to change G-d let it do so wildly. The pre-cambrian period had the most dirverse life than any other age. G-d lets the ones with the most potential develop and grow and most of the other life die off in an extinction event. There is evidance of six or seven extinction (add one if you count recent human activity) events in paeleologic record. Every time an extinction event has occured the life that has made it through has become far more complex and developed, but less diverse. Now through millions of years of directing life the first being capable of comprehending G-d arises from all this life that has developed behind him. Perhaps Adam was the first human that was self aware.

We have all this physcial evidence for evolution, it's all around us if we use our G-d given brains we can see it.

G-d writes his prophesy in earth itself as well as in the minds of man. With more insight we have in our physcial world, into how everything works can bring us more appreciation of the divine.

(If any of this is familiar it's cause I took the meat of it from some old posts, my arguement's not changed )

In other words, science answers "how" questions whereas religion answers "why" questions.

Alas, while I think there is always a "how", I am not sure there is always a "because".

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In other words, science answers "how" questions whereas religion answers "why" questions.

Alas, while I think there is always a "how", I am not sure there is always a "because".

Ciao

- viole

I think what was being said was that if there is a god, of course we are going to see the natural laws at work because this god would have had to have used something to make things function.
In fact, that was how science was approached by many of the earliest scientists, and even many today, that science is explaining what god created.

 

[viole]

I think what was being said was that if there is a god, of course we are going to see the natural laws at work because this god would have had to have used something to make things function.
In fact, that was how science was approached by many of the earliest scientists, and even many today, that science is explaining what god created.

With the possible exception of evolution by natural selection. That is the real God's undertaker once we realize how it really works. And in that, I agree with my fundamentalist friends. Evolution IS incompatible with the God of the Bible.

I cannot imagine a benevolent, omnipotent and competent God, who knows what He does, and who uses evolution to achieve His ends. A pitiless, amoral and wasteful mechanism that relies, among other things, on geological, meteorological and astronomic catastrophes and spanning hundreds of millions of years while walking on the bodies of an incredible amount of extinctions and dead ends.

I mean, what's the point?

Ciao

- viole

 

[outhouse]

Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose

NECROMANCING a 10 year old thread.


But both of these statements are wrong.

Religion has never told us why we exist with any credibility, and all do it differently, and it is NOT required for purpose.

 

[leibowde84]

with people trying to disprove science with religion and vice/versa. Science is not diametricly opposed to religion. Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive. Religion is here to tell us why we exist, it gives us purpose. Science is concerned with how the world and the universe works. How and Why are two seperate questions. We cannot understand our existance without addressing both questions. Science is not equipped to tell us why we are here, and Religion is woefully inadequate in telling us how it all works.

Lets talk about evolution. Evolution is fact. the mechanisms of evolution are debated, but the fact of it is not because evolution is observable. fossil record has traced birds back to dinosaurs. the archaeoperyx is a creature with scales, teeth, and feathers. If we move to the present day you see animals like the ostridge and emu. they're built to run exactly like dinosaurs were. There are also some species of birds alive today that in the embryonic state they start to develop small shap teeth that do not mature. That in it self is a 'missing link' between the birds of today and dinosaurs of the past. We can see the changes in species millions of years back. We can even look up at the stars and calculate how old they are based on distance and the speed of light.

I've said it before on these forums:

G-d would not create physcial laws and natural systems if He weren't going to use them.

If you want to get theological about it. it makes sence. Say G-d creates life and His goal is to create a being in his image. Through His Will he made the conditions just right for life to occur, this process could take billions of years (in our perception of time) for all the right conditions to occur for life to happen. Once He creates life it still takes hundreds of millions of years for conditions to become such that life can change. The conditions for a single cell to become a multicell organism is probably more complex than the first spark of life. Once life had the ability to change G-d let it do so wildly. The pre-cambrian period had the most dirverse life than any other age. G-d lets the ones with the most potential develop and grow and most of the other life die off in an extinction event. There is evidance of six or seven extinction (add one if you count recent human activity) events in paeleologic record. Every time an extinction event has occured the life that has made it through has become far more complex and developed, but less diverse. Now through millions of years of directing life the first being capable of comprehending G-d arises from all this life that has developed behind him. Perhaps Adam was the first human that was self aware.

We have all this physcial evidence for evolution, it's all around us if we use our G-d given brains we can see it.

G-d writes his prophesy in earth itself as well as in the minds of man. With more insight we have in our physcial world, into how everything works can bring us more appreciation of the divine.

(If any of this is familiar it's cause I took the meat of it from some old posts, my arguement's not changed )

Why do you assume that science won't be able to answer "why" with future developments?