Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
I don't think a person gives up their beliefs when tolerant of other beliefs. Tolerance is the key to growth. I think to put attributes on God or say what God does or doesn't do would belittle God.
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It's time for a Crusade
- Thread starter Luke, Anglican of Newcast
- Start date
Irenicas
high overlord of sod all
I worry when people of any faith or race talk like this.
Of all the creatures on the earth, human beings are the only ones who have devised methods of mass slaughter, the only ones to fight wars. Is this part of our gift? Is this to balance up the fact that we are able to progress beyond the physical?
To the Christians that speak for a crusade:
The original crusades were not fought for religion. At that point in history, the pope had an active role in the politics of Europe, and the crusade has been mostly agreed upon by historians to be a way to halt unrest in the various countries. I think if you examine the evidence, then you wil find that the core reason was not one of religion.
Christ himself told you to be peaceful. He told you to make peace, and help your neighbour, regardless of creed or faith or race. Do you not remember the fact you should always cross over the road to help?
To all others:
We must worry, for this is not an uncommon feeling. But we do not have to let this happen. If we can stand tall, and simply show those that hate us that we are not like their fears, then they will see the light and the truth. We must be strong, and kind, and caring, and attempt to understand, only then can we stop a crusade
Of all the creatures on the earth, human beings are the only ones who have devised methods of mass slaughter, the only ones to fight wars. Is this part of our gift? Is this to balance up the fact that we are able to progress beyond the physical?
To the Christians that speak for a crusade:
The original crusades were not fought for religion. At that point in history, the pope had an active role in the politics of Europe, and the crusade has been mostly agreed upon by historians to be a way to halt unrest in the various countries. I think if you examine the evidence, then you wil find that the core reason was not one of religion.
Christ himself told you to be peaceful. He told you to make peace, and help your neighbour, regardless of creed or faith or race. Do you not remember the fact you should always cross over the road to help?
To all others:
We must worry, for this is not an uncommon feeling. But we do not have to let this happen. If we can stand tall, and simply show those that hate us that we are not like their fears, then they will see the light and the truth. We must be strong, and kind, and caring, and attempt to understand, only then can we stop a crusade
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Irenicas, well said!
quick and LCMS,
You say that Christianity is a faith of absolutes which does not allow tolerance of other religions, but didn't Jesus himself say 'Love thy neighbor'? Are you forgetting the story of the good samaritan?
There is more to a person than religion--even your own Jesus could recognize that. Like Lightkeeper said, you don't have to sacrifice your own faith by accepting someone elses. Acceptence and tolerance means that you respect that person as a human being, who in truth, has just as much conviction as you do, even if it doesn't agree with your own. I think we would all agree here that no one knows the 'truth'. Is it worth it to you to cause people so much pain through your lack of acceptence when you have just as big a chance of being proven wrong as they do?
quick and LCMS,
You say that Christianity is a faith of absolutes which does not allow tolerance of other religions, but didn't Jesus himself say 'Love thy neighbor'? Are you forgetting the story of the good samaritan?
There is more to a person than religion--even your own Jesus could recognize that. Like Lightkeeper said, you don't have to sacrifice your own faith by accepting someone elses. Acceptence and tolerance means that you respect that person as a human being, who in truth, has just as much conviction as you do, even if it doesn't agree with your own. I think we would all agree here that no one knows the 'truth'. Is it worth it to you to cause people so much pain through your lack of acceptence when you have just as big a chance of being proven wrong as they do?
LCMS Sprecher
Member
Agreed Ceridwen. I have a problem though when some people equate tolerance with accepting that different religions can all be viable ways to heaven. Christianity expressly says that the only way is through the grace of God and Christ's death on the cross. I cannot say then that Buddhism (or Islam, Hinduism, some different Christian denominations etc...) are viable ways to heaven because they are not (this is in my belief). However, I recognize that these people are entitled to these individual beliefs and I have no problem with them holding them. I cannot say that those beliefs are acceptable to me though because they conflict with my religion however they can be acceptable to others and that is fine. That is acceptance and toleration for me. I believe that there is a group that slams Christians for not readily embracing the "possible" validity of these other religions. I am against that kind of stereotype.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
there are many similairities between what Jesus taught and eastern beliefs.
"Shades of grey" is reality. Hinduism (and eastern beliefs) address this for the person to think for himself. its the individual battle for spirituality. this is reality. i think christianity runs away from it in a story land fantasy where Good vs. evil is everywhere.
you cannot fight a battle with swords in the spiritual world. this crusade will be fruitless.
Christianty (im sorry to say) does not stand today for what Jesus has taught. buddhism is much more closer to it than christianitity.
"Shades of grey" is reality. Hinduism (and eastern beliefs) address this for the person to think for himself. its the individual battle for spirituality. this is reality. i think christianity runs away from it in a story land fantasy where Good vs. evil is everywhere.
you cannot fight a battle with swords in the spiritual world. this crusade will be fruitless.
Christianty (im sorry to say) does not stand today for what Jesus has taught. buddhism is much more closer to it than christianitity.
Irenicas
high overlord of sod all
Absolutely, and of course, there is the wonderful fact that Jesus does in fact appear in Buddhism - he is occasionally mentioned in the discourses as a friend of Buddha, though some state that it is unlikely because the loacations involved.
Also, as a side note, the original religion taught by Jesus had a great founding in Reincarnation. The ideas of heaven and hell were added later to give the church more control of people.
Also, as a side note, the original religion taught by Jesus had a great founding in Reincarnation. The ideas of heaven and hell were added later to give the church more control of people.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
wow i never knew that irenicas
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
time travel rocks!
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
I mentioned this in another forum, but there is a book that talks about the possibility of Jesus spending his childhood with Buddhist monks in India...I'll have to find the author and title, but it seems like a very interesting idea to me.
LCMS Sprecher
Member
"You may be against that kind of stereotype, but from what you've just said, you fit it perfectly: other people can believe what they like, but your way is the only valid way."- Bastet
Of course, however my point is that when you say that you should accept other religions as valid ways to heaven that clearly contridicts Christian doctrine. Therefore, by recognizing that there are "other ways to God," I am throwing my own doctrine out the window. People should also practice tolerance for the supposedly "intolerant."
Of course, however my point is that when you say that you should accept other religions as valid ways to heaven that clearly contridicts Christian doctrine. Therefore, by recognizing that there are "other ways to God," I am throwing my own doctrine out the window. People should also practice tolerance for the supposedly "intolerant."
Irenicas
high overlord of sod all
*scratches his head*
Well, we've never really been certain when either persoon lived. I was always kind of keen on the idea myself. It may not be true, but I have heard some theories... and I think Jesus is refered to in... uh... (checks the sutras). Hmmm. Can't find it right now. When I do I'll post. But he isn't refered to by name, obviously.
Well, we've never really been certain when either persoon lived. I was always kind of keen on the idea myself. It may not be true, but I have heard some theories... and I think Jesus is refered to in... uh... (checks the sutras). Hmmm. Can't find it right now. When I do I'll post. But he isn't refered to by name, obviously.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
LCMS Sprecher said:
Hmmm... the early church was afraid, and so this human institution called itself the ONLY valid way to enter the gates of heaven. how can corrupt powerhungry humans mandate who can enter heaven? (something not of this world but in the next, at least for you guys....thats if you believe in it).
frankly i dont care if my beliefs contradict christian doctrine...trust me on this one, christian doctrine contradicts itself. as i said, why do you think there are so many PROTESTANT denominations? christianity cant even hold itself upright in the eyes of the Lord.
its in my opinion that christianity is not a religion. its a mere gathering of many religions under the name Christ. thats it. other than that, these religions argue and argue about thier preception of true meanings and jazzz which is completely worthless blather.
hindus and buddhists believe in Buddha. sure, they both believe in Buddha, but they are vastly different. likewise with Batists, epsicopalian, catholic, and prysbytaerian, etc....
Gerani,
You are right when you write that Hinduism and Buddhism are very different religions. But no Hindu believes in the Buddha or his teachings. Buddhists believe in the teachings of the Buddha, but they don't believe in him in the way a Christian believes in God or Christ.
You are right when you write that Hinduism and Buddhism are very different religions. But no Hindu believes in the Buddha or his teachings. Buddhists believe in the teachings of the Buddha, but they don't believe in him in the way a Christian believes in God or Christ.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
yes, that is true anders...but buddhists believe in the teachings of buddha whose teachings are very much similair to Jesus'. i see no difference except the location and minor differences (to the spiritual mind) that christ is God and blah blah blah.
it doesnt matter. because jesus followers and buddhists have the same teachings...
because you chose, Anders, to look and that big difference between God Christ and buddhists who dont believe in God, ...i dont think God wants that.
well thats where we differ. i believe as long as a person does well in life and does acts of kindness and loves (as Jesus did) hes well off to heaven.
but you say even a good soul cannot because he does not hold a mere label of *christian*.
it doesnt matter. because jesus followers and buddhists have the same teachings...
because you chose, Anders, to look and that big difference between God Christ and buddhists who dont believe in God, ...i dont think God wants that.
well thats where we differ. i believe as long as a person does well in life and does acts of kindness and loves (as Jesus did) hes well off to heaven.
but you say even a good soul cannot because he does not hold a mere label of *christian*.
Gerani,
If your whole post is adressed to me, you have misunderstood me greatly - or I have misunderstood you. Don't you agree that there is a difference between believing and not believing in a god? And I most emphatically claim that a person who lives a life of kindness and love, hurting nobody (including him/herself), is a good person, and would deserve being transported to a heaven, if such a thing exists, which I don't believe. It wouldn't matter what that person thinks, that is to say, that person's religion does not matter.
There are lots of important differences between the teachings of "jesus followers and buddhists". Christians believe in a God and they believe in heaven or hell for people in their second and final lives. Buddhism has no gods (at least in Theravada Buddhism, the Old School), and thinks that man must go through several lives. It is difficult to imagine larger differences than that. The ethical messages (love, kindness etc.) are fairly close, but those points can be found in any respectable religion.
If your whole post is adressed to me, you have misunderstood me greatly - or I have misunderstood you. Don't you agree that there is a difference between believing and not believing in a god? And I most emphatically claim that a person who lives a life of kindness and love, hurting nobody (including him/herself), is a good person, and would deserve being transported to a heaven, if such a thing exists, which I don't believe. It wouldn't matter what that person thinks, that is to say, that person's religion does not matter.
There are lots of important differences between the teachings of "jesus followers and buddhists". Christians believe in a God and they believe in heaven or hell for people in their second and final lives. Buddhism has no gods (at least in Theravada Buddhism, the Old School), and thinks that man must go through several lives. It is difficult to imagine larger differences than that. The ethical messages (love, kindness etc.) are fairly close, but those points can be found in any respectable religion.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
is believing in God and heaven and hell that important?
Buddhists dont literally express that God exists, but salvation clearly exists in both.
God or no god, both religions are in persuit of the same spiritual fuzziness/salvation.
i hope people can see that instead of looking at obvious differences that really dont matter.
Buddhists dont literally express that God exists, but salvation clearly exists in both.
God or no god, both religions are in persuit of the same spiritual fuzziness/salvation.
i hope people can see that instead of looking at obvious differences that really dont matter.
To Christiana, belief in God and heaven should be the most important thing in their lives. To a Buddhist, striving to reach nibbana would be the most important thing.
Theravada Buddhists are very clear in denying the existence of gods.
Considering the difference between reaching heaven and having a new life versus getting away from any further life, I can't see that Christians and Buddhist are looking for the same salvation.
Those things are important to those belivers. What matters to me is what I wrote in my previous post.
Theravada Buddhists are very clear in denying the existence of gods.
Considering the difference between reaching heaven and having a new life versus getting away from any further life, I can't see that Christians and Buddhist are looking for the same salvation.
Those things are important to those belivers. What matters to me is what I wrote in my previous post.