It's Easier to Criticize Than Justify

[Nakosis]

It is easier for me to criticize what someone else believes than justify a belief. So I've gotten to the point of criticizing all beliefs, even my own.

Why Criticism Doesn't Work

At no time in this downward spiral does an obvious fact occur to critical people: Criticism is an utter failure at getting positive behavior change. Any short-term gain you might get from it builds resentment down the line.

Criticism fails because it embodies two of the things that human beings hate the most:

1. It calls for submission, and we hate to submit.
2. It devalues, and we hate to feel devalued.

While people hate to submit, though, we actually like to cooperate. Critical people seem oblivious to this key point about human nature: The valued self cooperates; the devalued self resists. If you want behavior change from a partner, child, relative, or friend, first show value for the person. If you want resistance, criticize.

Why We Criticize Anyway

Critical people are certainly smart enough to figure out that criticism doesn’t work. So why do they keep doing it, even in the face of mounting frustration? It's because criticism is an easy form of ego defense. We don’t criticize because we disagree with a behavior or an attitude. We criticize because we somehow feel devalued by the behavior or attitude. Critical people tend to be easily insulted and especially in need of ego defense.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201404/whats-wrong-criticism

How much of this is true or really how does it apply to people who post criticisms of other people's beliefs?

Is there an exception to this? Is there more to criticism (of religious belief) than the need to feed one's own ego?

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe on RF there is the tendency of many people to consider their own views (religious or not) superior a priori.

I think that anyone here has the right to criticize my own beliefs, but this means that the same person (who does that ) should accept that I criticize theirs.

It's the double standards: people do not want others to do what they do themselves to others...that is "I can criticize you but you cannot criticize me"

 

[Vinayaka]

What is criticism?

 

[Nakosis]

I believe on RF there is the tendency of many people to consider their own views (religious or not) superior a priori.

I think that anyone here has the right to criticize my own beliefs, but this means that the same person (who does that ) should accept that I criticize theirs.

It's the double standards: people do not want others to do what they do themselves to others...that is "I can criticize you but you cannot criticize me"

Good point. The way I see myself as avoiding that, for the most part, is not offer my beliefs. Most of my beliefs about the unanswerable questions about life and death are pretty weak anyway.

Atheism is a pretty defensible position though, no beliefs, other than the best position is to lack any belief about a God's existence.

 

[Stevicus]

It is easier for me to criticize what someone else believes than justify a belief. So I've gotten to the point of criticizing all beliefs, even my own.

Why Criticism Doesn't Work

At no time in this downward spiral does an obvious fact occur to critical people: Criticism is an utter failure at getting positive behavior change. Any short-term gain you might get from it builds resentment down the line.

Criticism fails because it embodies two of the things that human beings hate the most:

1. It calls for submission, and we hate to submit.
2. It devalues, and we hate to feel devalued.

While people hate to submit, though, we actually like to cooperate. Critical people seem oblivious to this key point about human nature: The valued self cooperates; the devalued self resists. If you want behavior change from a partner, child, relative, or friend, first show value for the person. If you want resistance, criticize.

Why We Criticize Anyway

Critical people are certainly smart enough to figure out that criticism doesn’t work. So why do they keep doing it, even in the face of mounting frustration? It's because criticism is an easy form of ego defense. We don’t criticize because we disagree with a behavior or an attitude. We criticize because we somehow feel devalued by the behavior or attitude. Critical people tend to be easily insulted and especially in need of ego defense.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201404/whats-wrong-criticism

How much of this is true or really how does it apply to people who post criticisms of other people's beliefs?

Is there an exception to this? Is there more to criticism (of religious belief) than the need to feed one's own ego?

I don't think there's anything wrong with constructive criticism, although good criticism wouldn't necessarily be "easier." Good criticism should entail more than someone saying "you suck" (or something equally banal or trite). It should be difficult, and a good critic should do their homework ahead of time if they expect their criticism to be taken seriously.

 

[Nakosis]

What is criticism?

In this case pointing out faults in someone's beliefs. I suspect if you look really hard at a belief, and perhaps have a bit of creativity, one can usually find fault somewhere.

For example finding fault with the Bible. If criticism is not a effective means to change people's mind, why do we keep doing it? What is the motivation?

The need to feed our ego or something else?

 

[Nakosis]

I don't think there's anything wrong with constructive criticism, although good criticism wouldn't necessarily be "easier." Good criticism should entail more than someone saying "you suck" (or something equally banal or trite). It should be difficult, and a good critic should do their homework ahead of time if they expect their criticism to be taken seriously.

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.

Most "discussions" on the forums seem to be of the oppositional type. Ok, so if we are trying to be constructive in our discussions

The oppositional discussions, are these basically ego driven?

 

[savagewind]

In this case pointing out faults in someone's beliefs. I suspect if you look really hard at a belief, and perhaps have a bit of creativity, one can usually find fault somewhere.

For example finding fault with the Bible. If criticism is not a effective means to change people's mind, why do we keep doing it? What is the motivation?

The need to feed our ego or something else?

My motivation for criticizing the Jehovah's Witnesses is just evidence. Someone someday might care about why something happened to them if something does happen and he, she, or it might find criticism of mine about them which might help explain it.

 

[Jim]

@Nakosis I’m not sure what good you think this might do, but if you’d like to see better behavior in Internet discussions, I have some ideas I’d like to discuss with you. Tomorrow, after I get some sleep and get some work done.

 

[PureX]

How much of this is true or really how does it apply to people who post criticisms of other people's beliefs?

Is there an exception to this? Is there more to criticism (of religious belief) than the need to feed one's own ego?

Criticism is essential for clear thinking and effective communication. But for criticism to be of value to us, we have to learn to turn off our ego's 'auto-defend' mode. If we are unwilling or unable to do that, than whatever valuable criticism we are blessed to receive will be completely wasted.

The key, I believe, to effective criticism, both in giving and in receiving it, is to understand up front that it's NOT ABOUT WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG, it's about what you see and understand in relation to what I see and understand. It's a sharing of perspectives for the purpose of increasing clarity and insight all around.

 

[Nakosis]

My motivation for criticizing the Jehovah's Witnesses is just evidence. Someone someday might care about why something happened to them if something does happen and he, she, or it might find criticism of mine about them which might help explain it.

To be effectively helpful, we're supposed to balance the positive and negative, and remain friendly/supportive.

The Watchtower, I'm pretty negative about. I have taken the time to verify the statement made in the Watchtower about the Bible. IMO most of it was pretty wrong. Most of the JW's who come knocking at my door are looking for Spanish speaking folks so I don't get a lot of interaction.

I don't think I could be very friendly or supportive of the Watchtower however. Do you remain fairly friendly/supportive in your discussions about/with JWs?

 

[Stevicus]

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.

Most "discussions" on the forums seem to be of the oppositional type. Ok, so if we are trying to be constructive in our discussions

The oppositional discussions, are these basically ego driven?

I think they could be ego driven, to some degree.

 

[savagewind]

To be effectively helpful, we're supposed to balance the positive and negative, and remain friendly/supportive.

The Watchtower, I'm pretty negative about. I have taken the time to verify the statement made in the Watchtower about the Bible. IMO most of it was pretty wrong. Most of the JW's who come knocking at my door are looking for Spanish speaking folks so I don't get a lot of interaction.

I don't think I could be very friendly or supportive of the Watchtower however. Do you remain fairly friendly/supportive in your discussions about/with JWs?

They don't talk to me much. I can't support them in their thinking so I am looked upon as an enemy of them. I might be friendly, but they don't think so!

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's Witnesses call me an ax grinder.

 

[savagewind]

I call Jehovah's Witnesses blind. They say that Almighty God Jehovah gave the World the men of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to tell us all what God wants us to know for the goodness of the planet and everlasting life and they say that the Bible is all that they need to know how but the Bible actually and really says Psalms 146:3. Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.

Stupid? I think so.

 

[savagewind]

Evil? Oh God! I hope not.

 

[Nakosis]

I call Jehovah's Witnesses blind. They say that Almighty God Jehovah gave the World the men of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to tell us all what God wants us to know for the goodness of the planet and everlasting life and they say that the Bible is all that they need to know how but the Bible actually and really says Psalms 146:3. Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.

Stupid? I think so.

Ok, but how do you view this idea that if one really wants to be effective in changing someone's mind, it's best to be constructive in your discussion?

Personal reason: I see my son being very critical of his 3yo son, my grandson. Maybe I was overly critical too, don't remember. Now, it doesn't seem a very effective way to change behavior.

Negativity doesn't work does it?
Yet it is commonly how people go about trying to change other people's mind about their beliefs.

 

[Audie]

It is easier for me to criticize what someone else believes than justify a belief. So I've gotten to the point of criticizing all beliefs, even my own.

Why Criticism Doesn't Work

At no time in this downward spiral does an obvious fact occur to critical people: Criticism is an utter failure at getting positive behavior change. Any short-term gain you might get from it builds resentment down the line.

Criticism fails because it embodies two of the things that human beings hate the most:

1. It calls for submission, and we hate to submit.
2. It devalues, and we hate to feel devalued.

While people hate to submit, though, we actually like to cooperate. Critical people seem oblivious to this key point about human nature: The valued self cooperates; the devalued self resists. If you want behavior change from a partner, child, relative, or friend, first show value for the person. If you want resistance, criticize.

Why We Criticize Anyway

Critical people are certainly smart enough to figure out that criticism doesn’t work. So why do they keep doing it, even in the face of mounting frustration? It's because criticism is an easy form of ego defense. We don’t criticize because we disagree with a behavior or an attitude. We criticize because we somehow feel devalued by the behavior or attitude. Critical people tend to be easily insulted and especially in need of ego defense.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201404/whats-wrong-criticism

How much of this is true or really how does it apply to people who post criticisms of other people's beliefs?

Is there an exception to this? Is there more to criticism (of religious belief) than the need to feed one's own ego?

Criticizing your "pizza" for being a cyclostome
sure didn't work.

 

[Audie]

To be effectively helpful, we're supposed to balance the positive and negative, and remain friendly/supportive.

The Watchtower, I'm pretty negative about. I have taken the time to verify the statement made in the Watchtower about the Bible. IMO most of it was pretty wrong. Most of the JW's who come knocking at my door are looking for Spanish speaking folks so I don't get a lot of interaction.

I don't think I could be very friendly or supportive of the Watchtower however. Do you remain fairly friendly/supportive in your discussions about/with JWs?

I just jabber at them in some oriental lingo, and they soon leave.

 

[savagewind]

Ok, but how do you view this idea that if one really wants to be effective in changing someone's mind, it's best to be constructive in your discussion?

Personal reason: I see my son being very critical of his 3yo son, my grandson. Maybe I was overly critical too, don't remember. Now, it doesn't seem a very effective way to change behavior.

Negativity doesn't work does it?
Yet it is commonly how people go about trying to change other people's mind about their beliefs.

You are right. It is OK to disagree but to call it stupid is counterproductive. The JWs call the World "under the influence of Satan" which is negativity and it won't work, imo but it isn't right to give it back the way they give it. I can see people ignore them which doesn't work either.

I have been trying to give them a positive spin on some scriptures but they don't like that.