israel-lebanon, the power of propaganda

[sindbad5]

the current war going on lebanon show us how sever the realities be twisted to fit one party, and how the prevailing media become selective and influence the flow of news.

israel propaganda campaigns depende on some points:

1. this's a brand new war in the mideast after a period of peace and stability
   wrong; actually it's the 6th round of a continues war flamming for more than 60 years in the region.
2. israel have no occupation in lebanon since 2000
   wrong; israel still occupy a very precious piece of land in lebanon, Shebia Farms
3. hisbullah start the war by kidnapping 2 israelies
   wrong; hisbullah captures 2 SOLDIERS (not any israelies, 2 armed soldiers) from thier tanks, taking into considrations:
   they are from the army who occupy,
   and constantly trespassing the sovereignty of the state of lebanon by the means of airforces,
   or killing civilians at boreders (like the shepherd israel killed days before the capturing happened),
   or by means of terrorism and explosions in lebanese towns.
4. israel have no choice than the war
   wrong; hisbullah offred time over time to negotiate over 10,000 lebanese in israel prisons, but israel insistly refuses all these offeres.
5. israel targeting hisbullah fighters and places, and israel is sorry for the collatral civilians casualities.
   wrong; israel intentions was very clear from the first day in the war that it target civilians and delibratly hunt innocents as a means to build oppositions to hisbullah in lebanon
6. israel make a progress in the fight
   wrong; israel losts tenth of sodiers and failed even to advance deep in the lebanon lands.
   israel army has nothing todo except airstriking and bombing from the sea.
   
   israel army considered one of the strongest in the world, with a very advanced war machines, technologies, and techniques. more over, the most sphistecated ammunations and weapons in the USA arsenal are under its hands.
   in the other hand, hisbullah is a gurilla. that make anybody astonish about how it hold out all these 25 days of intense fighting.
   
   i think it's the man, not the machine, who fight and make the difference.
   air to land: israel to win
   sea to land: israel to win
   man to man: hisbullah to win
7. israel destroyed most of hisbullah ability to launch rockets
   wrong; well, read the news
   
   israel build it's strategy on myths propagated by biased media, but on the ground, it just do massacrs !

 

[c0da]

1. And ask yourself, who is to blame for the fact that there has been no peace. Surely Israel can't be 100% at fault, especially if you consider the fact that those groups who oppose Israel have spent a large portion of this 60 years calling for the destruction of Israel.

2. Sheba'a farms is recognized by most of the international community to be Israeli territory, stop moaning.

3. Whever they were armed or not, they are Israelis. I don't know where you got the idea that if you put somebody in a tank they suddenly lose their nationality. Hezballah came on Israeli territory and kidnapped two soldiers - try all you want to distort the truth, but that is what happened.

4. The phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" comes to mind. I think Israel would have prefered to get it's soldiers back without having to release some criminals.

5. I don't see how the anti-Israeli people fail to understand what Hezballah is doing! Hezballah hide themselves and their weapons and attack Israel from within civillian areas. If Israel strike back at who is attacking them then, because of where Hezballah have positioned themselves, civillians will regrettably die. And if the Israelis were so bent on killing civillians, would they drop leaflets a while before they attack to warn civillians to evacuate? NO!

6. Israel never wanted to progress very deep into Lebanese territory, they just wanted to push Hezballah back from the Israel's norther border to create an area which an UN force could occupy.

7. I don't think Israel said it had destroyed most of Hezballah's rocket launching capabilities.

Whilst we are talking about 'the power of propaganda', maybe you should have a quick look around http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/arab_media_portrayal_jews.htm this website. You can see where the truely hateful propaganda is coming from.

 

[Flappycat]

Oh, blimey. You want to moralize and point fingers? How about you tell us about the sins of Arabic people's in Africa, Sindbad? Really, tell us why it is that an Arabic word for "infidel" is one of the most offensive terms for "black person" in some parts of Africa? Now, one of the few parts of Africa that might prosper one day had a strong multi-cultural movement not too terribly long ago. Darfur, on the other hand, is being torn apart by a genocide that could rival Rwanda, and guess why. Hmm? Time's up. Here's what happened: they had a drought, followed by a catastrophic famine, and the finger-pointing did the rest. Who is at fault? People who point fingers. Who is doing the killing? People who point fingers. Put that thing away, Sindbad. It is the ultimate weapon against peace.

 

[jewscout]

i can do that too!

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Israel_Under_Fire.asp

hehe that was fun!!

 

[croak]

1. And ask yourself, who is to blame for the fact that there has been no peace. Surely Israel can't be 100% at fault, especially if you consider the fact that those groups who oppose Israel have spent a large portion of this 60 years calling for the destruction of Israel.

Well, it did start with the creation of Israel. If Israel hadn't been created, and Jews lived alongside others in Palestine, no one would be calling for their destruction (except for a couple of weirdos).

2. Sheba'a farms is recognized by most of the international community to be Israeli territory, stop moaning.

The UN said it was Syrian. I, personally, have no idea.

3. Whever they were armed or not, they are Israelis. I don't know where you got the idea that if you put somebody in a tank they suddenly lose their nationality. Hezballah came on Israeli territory and kidnapped two soldiers - try all you want to distort the truth, but that is what happened.

Therefore they are prisoners of war. Is it illegal to capture enemy soldiers? Sure, they crossed the border. Are you trying to say that Israel hasn't in the past few years? Whether it is by land, sea, or air, they are still crossing an international boundary. Hizbullah by land, Israel by air and sea. And Israel has been violating airspace and such long before this conflict began.

4. The phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" comes to mind. I think Israel would have prefered to get it's soldiers back without having to release some criminals.

Terrorists, terrorists, terrorists. Well, if what Hizbullah is doing is terrorism, Israel too fits the profile. Therefore, I see fit to call the Israelis who are carrying out war crimes and massacres terrorists.

5. I don't see how the anti-Israeli people fail to understand what Hezballah is doing! Hezballah hide themselves and their weapons and attack Israel from within civillian areas. If Israel strike back at who is attacking them then, because of where Hezballah have positioned themselves, civillians will regrettably die. And if the Israelis were so bent on killing civillians, would they drop leaflets a while before they attack to warn civillians to evacuate? NO!

Israel does have the choice of whether to attack civilian areas or not. If they do, then it means they don't mind civilian deaths, so long as Hizbullah rocket installations and so on are destroyed. Were they to send troops in, civilian casualties would be minimized drastically. But no, they'd rather have it over and done with.

Leaflets.... If your enemy were to drop leaflets implying that they want to destroy your entire village, along with your house and countless memories, and turn it into a disaster zone, would you be happy? No. Some people do leave, but others are defiant. They do not want destroyed what took a lifetime and beyond to construct. Some people who do try to flee, however, can be Israeli targets. Simply watch the news: civilians fleeing the fighting have taken direct hits, only to be buried in the same area they so desperately wanted to leave.

6. Israel never wanted to progress very deep into Lebanese territory, they just wanted to push Hezballah back from the Israel's norther border to create an area which an UN force could occupy.

How are you so sure? If I've learned one thing, it's been to criticize everything the Israelis say. They are possibly going to return to the area they have occupied for 20 years. What does that tell you? Have a look at this: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/israels-deadliest-weapon.html (many comments -whistles-).

7. I don't think Israel said it had destroyed most of Hezballah's rocket launching capabilities.

Maybe it said a lot. But how are they supposed to know what Hizbullah's launching capabilities are? They're guessing.

i can do that too!

http://www.honestreporting.com/artic...Under_Fire.asp

hehe that was fun!!

Haha.

 

[croak]

Oh, and Lebanese people in Israeli prisons: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/lebanese-pows-israels-dirty-little.html

I'm not sure about al-Qintar, though.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This is almost boring.

Shoot rockets at a soverign country = expect them to make your life miserable.

I'm getting another cup of coffee.

 

[Flappycat]

Okay, guys. Continue to be miserable to each other. See if it solves anything. Israel, you're still so bitter over past sins against you that you can only see the sins of others, and, you of Islam, you still haven't learned that your truest enemies disguise themselves in your clothing and bring evil upon you in your name.

 

[c0da]

Well, it did start with the creation of Israel. If Israel hadn't been created, and Jews lived alongside others in Palestine, no one would be calling for their destruction (except for a couple of weirdos).

That is absolute rubbish. In the early-mid 1900s, when Jewish immigration was increasing, on numerous occasions, Arabs used violence against Jews. You say that they could have coexisted in Palestine peacefully, events like the Great Arab Uprising prove otherwise.

Therefore they are prisoners of war.

If the actual Lebanese army had captured them then, yes, they could be POWs, but Hezballah are a terrorist organisation. Hezballah and the Lebanese armed forces are different things.

 

[Booko]

Well, it did start with the creation of Israel. If Israel hadn't been created, and Jews lived alongside others in Palestine, no one would be calling for their destruction (except for a couple of weirdos).

And yet, when Baha'is razed a row of apartments in Haifa, some of the Arab media spread filth about how we had done that to kick out all those Muslims.

The truth is the apartments were shoddy and unliveable, we bought them at a fair market price from the owners, and razed them.

So actually, I am not so certain that if Jews wanted to live size by side it would just be hunky dory.

Terrorists, terrorists, terrorists. Well, if what Hizbullah is doing is terrorism, Israel too fits the profile. Therefore, I see fit to call the Israelis who are carrying out war crimes and massacres terrorists.

Israel does have the choice of whether to attack civilian areas or not. If they do, then it means they don't mind civilian deaths, so long as Hizbullah rocket installations and so on are destroyed. Were they to send troops in, civilian casualties would be minimized drastically. But no, they'd rather have it over and done with.

You're right that they have a choice. Whether the other options were less worse is up for debate.

Leaflets.... If your enemy were to drop leaflets implying that they want to destroy your entire village, along with your house and countless memories, and turn it into a disaster zone, would you be happy? No. Some people do leave, but others are defiant.

I don't even know that defiance enters into it that much. People stay for lots of reasons, like they have no money or means to get out, or they are infirm or things of that nature. We had the same thing in New Orleans last year. Days or warning -- lots of people stayed.

Maybe it said a lot. But how are they supposed to know what Hizbullah's launching capabilities are? They're guessing.

It's a guess based on some evidence, not just a straight up guess.

Not that we can all depend on intelligence to be a good guide all the time, though. I'm still waiting for the pix of those WMD from Iraq. pffft

 

[croak]

That is absolute rubbish. In the early-mid 1900s, when Jewish immigration was increasing, on numerous occasions, Arabs used violence against Jews. You say that they could have coexisted in Palestine peacefully, events like the Great Arab Uprising prove otherwise.

So it started when Jewish immigration increased.

The revolt was driven primarily by Arab hostility to Britain's permission of restricted Jewish immigration and land purchases which Palestinian Arabs believed was leading them to becoming a minority in the territory and future nation-state. They demanded immediate elections which, based on their demographic majority, would have resulted in a democratic Arab government. [emphasis mine]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Uprising

So, the idea of the creation of Israel was what caused it. If elections were allowed, the whole situation may have changed.

If the actual Lebanese army had captured them then, yes, they could be POWs, but Hezballah are a terrorist organisation. Hezballah and the Lebanese armed forces are different things.

How are they not POWs?

A prisoner of war (POW, PoW, or PW) is a soldier, sailor, airman, marine, or any combatant who is imprisoned by an enemy power during or immediately after an armed conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_War

 

[croak]

And yet, when Baha'is razed a row of apartments in Haifa, some of the Arab media spread filth about how we had done that to kick out all those Muslims.

The truth is the apartments were shoddy and unliveable, we bought them at a fair market price from the owners, and razed them.

So actually, I am not so certain that if Jews wanted to live size by side it would just be hunky dory.

I have no idea about that.

It's a guess based on some evidence, not just a straight up guess.

Not that we can all depend on intelligence to be a good guide all the time, though. I'm still waiting for the pix of those WMD from Iraq. pffft

Doesn't make the guess much more accurate, though.

WMDs....

 

[Flappycat]

Oh, count your own sins first. Modern Israel is as much the Muslim world's monster as Hezballah and Hamas are Israel's. Anti-semitism in the Arabic world has a long and rather vulgar history. Are you familiar with the word "Dhimmi," or were you taught about that in your (slanted) history classes? It took Nazi propaganda to turn their treatment of the Jews uglier than that of the Christians and Zoroastrians, though; oh, you certainly owe much of your problems to the Nazis, if only through your own weakmindedness--not that you'll ever speak at length of THAT intrusion of the Western world into your affairs. I think the first thing the Arabic Muslim world needs to do is drive out the Nazis, who are still their true masters after all these years. Second, they need to make amends to every group they held barely a hair over the slave class for centuries. After that, perhaps the ball will be in Israel's court.

I think that it is also relevant that Muslim subjugation of all in their conquered lands who wouldn't convert to Islam arguably completely annulls any rights they have to that land, no matter how long they may have held it. Ponder that, Israel, and consider revising the way you treat Arabic Muslims on your own soil.

Ahem. It keeps getting more fun. And you of the West, do recall that it's because they were forced to get used to your rubbish that the Jews of the region didn't die a relatively peaceful death alongside the Zoroastrians. Heh, with the way they were treated by the Christians (Oh, but these Christians did the same with other types of Christian), playing serf for the Muslims was almost a pleasant change of scenery.

My, but this is a many-fathered monster. Anyway, next time you complain about any participant in the current mess, remember, it never would have happened if not for your bloody stupid ancestors.

 

[c0da]

So it started when Jewish immigration increased.

Jewish immigrants who had nowhere to go. They had suffered anti-Jewish attitudes in Poland, Germany, Russia etc.. Britain would not accept the immigrants, so they moved to Israel. Sinbad implied the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 caused tensions to rise and begin the violence, my point was that violence had occured before this.

The revolt was driven primarily by Arab hostility to Britain's permission of restricted Jewish immigration and land purchases which Palestinian Arabs believed was leading them to becoming a minority in the territory and future nation-state. They demanded immediate elections which, based on their demographic majority, would have resulted in a democratic Arab government. [emphasis mine]

So, the idea of the creation of Israel was what caused it. If elections were allowed, the whole situation may have changed.

As fairly reccent immigrants themselves, the Arabs claim to the land does not hold any more weight than that of the Israelis, especially considering that much of the land the Jews lived on, they had bought legally themselves.

A prisoner of war (POW, PoW, or PW) is a soldier, sailor, airman, marine, or any combatant who is imprisoned by an enemy power during or immediately after an armed conflict.

During or immediately after? Well what started this little episode was the capture of prisoners before any hostilities had begun.

It says here 'enemy power'. Hezballah legally hold no exclusive power over the South of Lebanon, they just hijacked the governing of the area from the real Lebanese government.

Another thing to mention would be that in this article, it says that a terrorist does not count as a prisoner of war, so surely if a terrorist can not be a POW, then they can not capture a prisoner of war.

 

[Booko]

How are they not POWs?

Hezbollah is not a nation? Nations have POWs.

 

[almifkhar]

no hezbollah is not a nation, but they are a party within a nation. and lets not forget, all arab parties agreed that they would reconise israel as a nation if israel would go back to 67 borders, instead what did they do, continue with the land grabbing.

if someone was trying to take your house and land from you, would you not fight? or would you just lay down and let them take it and be forced to leave because our religon or skin color is not politically correct? because this my friends is the reality of the situation. the u.n. finally kicked israel out of southern lebanon 10 or so years ago, and looky how they have returned. history has repeated itself except now it is bloodier than it was before, this is the only difference. if the neghibor was not trying to steal land, a fighting group would have never formed and i think this is the point that many miss. it's one thing when a new commer comes in peacefully, but when the new commer comes in forcefully, why would any one be surprised to see the natives fight? this is the real problem in this area of the world. palestine holds only 20% of the land it once had and ya'll wonder why they fight back? hezbollah knows full and well what will happen if they just lay down and let isreal in without a fight, bye bye southern lebanon is what would happen. would that be cool?

 

[Ody]

Oh, and Lebanese people in Israeli prisons: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/lebanese-pows-israels-dirty-little.html

I'm not sure about al-Qintar, though.

Since when was a blog a source? Even my mom has a blog.

 

[Ody]

So it started when Jewish immigration increased.

You know whats interesting, its not the fact that Jewish immigration was the reason. In fact old non zionist Jews where targeted by the mufti's fanatics. To quote the hag himself,

"Our fundemental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate EVERY LAST JEW FROM PALESTINE AND THE ARAB WORLD."

 

[Ody]

no hezbollah is not a nation, but they are a party within a nation. and lets not forget, all arab parties agreed that they would reconise israel as a nation if israel would go back to 67 borders,

Where have you gotten this Gem? >.>

 

[almifkhar]

so hezbollah is not a party with in the lebanese government? um the arab league

alan

i love how you never seem to mention jews in palestine before the forigeners came. i love too how you like to mention how baddly jews were treated in arab places, yet fail to mention how the zionists adbucted jews in some cases, then put these same jews in "refugee" camps