Israel Elections

[Jayhawker Soule]

From the Jerusalem Post ...

Poll: Israel Beiteinu tied with Labor

Israel Beiteinu, led by Avigdor Lieberman, is emerging as the party that would be most strengthened in the February 10 national elections, according to an up-to-date poll published Wednesday.

The Likud is still the leading party with 27 Knesset seats, losing one seat to Israel Beiteinu, according to the latest poll. Lieberman's party is slated to win 17 seats in the upcoming elections.

Kadima has narrowed the gap with the Likud and is expected to win 23 mandates. Labor, according to the Ma'ariv/Teleseker poll, remains steady with 17 slots.

The poll's results show little change from last week's poll, except Lieberman's gain at the expense of Likud.

Shas also remained steady at 10 Knesset seats, as well as Hatnua Hahadasha-Meretz (6), United Torah Judaism (5), and Arab parties Hadash and United Arab List (4 each).

The two religious-Zionist parties, National Union (NU) and Habayit Hayehudi, switched one seat between them, with NU gaining one seat and expected to win 4 mandates and Habayit Hayehudi expected to win 3 seats (compared to 4 in the last poll).​

Meanwhile, Netanyahu has promised that he will topple Hamas, and Egypt is urging Hamas to negotiate now because the situation is likely to get much more difficult for them.

I'd be curious to see

• how you'd vote, and
• how think the outcome will affect the region.

 

[Caladan]

The support Lieberman receives reflects the gap between older generations of people who grew up in the iron curtain of the soviet era and immigrated to Israel and the sabras, although apparently there is more to it, and I pray to every conceivable pantheon in the cosmos that this is the main thing.
as a sabra, Lieberman seems very unfitting in the Israeli jigsaw, but the intense desire for security by many Israelis may cloud their long term vision, as I have personally witnessed.

 

[Elessar]

From what I have seen on my own news and my reading of the news, I, myself, think I would probably vote for Likud if I lived in Israel. I don't know, honestly, however, because I am not Israeli, nor do I pretend to know how Israelis actually feel or do I presume to say how Israelis should vote.

The reason I would vote Likud, I think, is because of security reasons (I don't trust Kadima anymore), and I would never support Yisrael Beiteinu (their notable anti-Arab openly stated beliefs, in addition to their less-obvious anti-Sephardi bias). Part of me would want to support Avoda, though, so I'm really not sure who I would vote for if I lived in Israel, I guess. I voted "Likud" in the poll, but really it's a Likud/Avoda undecided.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... really it's a Likud/Avoda undecided.

That's a curious schizophrenia. I'm also a bit curious as to why you use the name Avoda ...

 

[Elessar]

It is, I admit, so. It is borne of the question of my own political beliefs in general, combined with the need for a strong defense combined with Avoda's predecessors' historical bigotry against Sephardim and continued bigotry against even the liberal religious.

And I always use Avoda, partially because I fail to see why we would call every other political party in Hebrew and then say "Labor" suddenly for Avoda. Either it's Likud, Kadima and Avoda or Consolidation, Forward and Labor, in my mind.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And I always use Avoda, partially because I fail to see why we would call every other political party in Hebrew and then say "Labor" suddenly for Avoda.

Because we want to communicate rather than posture. If ynet, the Jerusalem Post, Haaretz, Israel National News, JTA, IHT, and the NYT are comfortable with "Labor" and if your audience is qualitatively more familiar with that term, then naked references to Avoda amount to little more than a mild but pretentious abuse of your audience.

 

[Elessar]

Because we want to communicate rather than posture. If ynet, the Jerusalem Post, Haaretz, Israel National News, JTA, IHT, and the NYT are comfortable with "Labor" and if your audience is qualitatively more familiar with that term, then naked references to Avoda amount to little more than a mild but pretentious abuse of your audience.

Perhaps. In my synagogue we always refer to it as "Avoda", and we call them all in Hebrew (Kadima, Avoda, Meimad, Shas, Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, Agudat, Degel, Mafdal, etc.) and it is the manner which I am used to.

 

[Caladan]

I do find it fascinating that your dilemma is between labor and likud. can you tell me what are your sentiments of their leadership?
what makes you trust and be at ease with Netanyahu? as you know he has some credibility issues with many in Israel.

 

[Elessar]

I do find it fascinating that your dilemma is between labor and likud. can you tell me what are your sentiments of their leadership?
what makes you trust and be at ease with Netanyahu? as you know he has some credibility issues with many in Israel.

Certainly. Honestly, for their beliefs and most of their politics, I support Avoda wholeheartedly. I am, at heart, a very left-sided person. I was a hardcore socialist earlier in life, though I have moderated since that time (I would probably be classified a social democrat today), and I support many of the things Avoda supports.

However, Avoda has, consistently, been biased against religious Jews. I don't mean just the Orthodox, I mean even the liberal religious Jews, from Conservative, Reform and Reconstruction Judaism (and, of course, Messianic, but that is a much more complex issue). In addition, in the past (though certainly not at present, to my knowledge), Avoda has been racist, generally discriminating against Sephardi Jews (such as myself) though not entirely intentionally (Sephardim tend to be more religious than Ashkenazim, not that there's anything wrong with either one). As a liberal religious Sephardi Jew, all this history is drawn into it when I think about Avoda.

After Avoda, my first instinct used to be Kadima, but everything as of late with Olmert, and some significant stumbling on the defense issue, has shaken my faith in that party, and I would not want them to continue as the government leaders, if only temporarily, so they can put their house in order from outside leadership.

After these and various other parties (I won't list every party), my only real remaining option, as a religious (but not Orthodox) Sephardi Jew with left-of-center politics, becomes Likud, especially with the defense issue. Though, once Kadima is out of power, I would watch it to see if they get their house in order, and then, probably, go back to supporting Kadima.

EDIT: But then, of course, recall - I am not Israeli, nor do I pretend to be so. I do not have, and should not have, any say in Israeli elections, and I am sure that, were I Israeli, my own beliefs would be different for having to live under it's government.

 

[Benjamin_D]

I'm going Likud

 

[Caladan]

However, Avoda has, consistently, been biased against religious Jews. I don't mean just the Orthodox, I mean even the liberal religious Jews

well evidently that is a bit more complex, because we have to look into former high profile figures within labor such as the liberal religious Burg, who is now a member of Meretz.

In addition, in the past (though certainly not at present, to my knowledge), Avoda has been racist, generally discriminating against Sephardi Jews (such as myself) though not entirely intentionally (Sephardim tend to be more religious than Ashkenazim, not that there's anything wrong with either one). As a liberal religious Sephardi Jew, all this history is drawn into it when I think about Avoda.

can you expand, and maybe analyze your observations?

After these and various other parties (I won't list every party), my only real remaining option, as a religious (but not Orthodox) Sephardi Jew with left-of-center politics, becomes Likud, especially with the defense issue.

now im sure you understand this is exactly what puzzles me and jay, Israeli leftists in general are on high alert from Likud and specifically from Netanyahu, although some may think he can serve as a successful FM.

 

[Caladan]

Lieberman and the general sensation of these election make me see a practical vote in Meretz. I dont have grand faith in executing their political goals, however I do have an interest in balancing the vote Lieberman (and Shas) will receive, and I have concrete interest in their domestic goals; more gay and minority rights, secularization, and an anti thesis for Israel Beitenu and an overall larger right wing vote.

 

[Sajdah]

That's extremely ironic, actually they are a democratic gang
The most of bloodshed, the most of success.

 

[Caladan]

That's extremely ironic, actually they are a democratic gang
The most of bloodshed, the most of success.

You could make a little effort to contribute something to this thread, considering that Arab citizens could take a good look at this democratic process in Israel and draw some educating conclusions.
Its going to take a long time for Arab nations (if ever) to develop the political diversity and the democratic process that nations like Israel have. considering that in Arab 'elections', the Arab citizen is simply passive. in fact not just in elections, but through out their life, Arab citizens are entirely passive in the different processes of the nation, while in Israel people have been educated to be initiative and know they can make changes and have an influence.

between the drawbacks in these Israeli elections, and being a passive person, who lives in a dictatorship, I will take the many complexities and frustrations of the former.

 

[Sajdah]

Its going to take a long time for Arab nations (if ever) to develop the political diversity and the democratic process that nations like Israel have.

Nations like Israel( Are they a nation?!!!!)

Certainly, that's because of you, Palestinians elected Hamas through democratic process, ( but you tend to call it a dictatorship, and try to demolish that sort of democracy) and democracy in our countries goes against your interests and ambitions, that's why it's best to you, that we are living under tyranny. That's really help you greatly.

considering that in Arab 'elections', the Arab citizen is simply passive. in fact not just in elections, but through out their life, Arab citizens are entirely passive in the different processes of the nation, while in Israel people have been educated to be initiative and know they can make changes and have an influence.

Yes, I agree with you. But please don't worry about us. We know how to make changes and influences.

 

[Caladan]

Is it possible for you to make a coherent post or engage in dialogue?

you should try it sometime, its what adults do.

 

[Caladan]

Some interesting (liberal) videos of former elections in Israel:

YouTube - Israeli liberals

YouTube - Meretz- Left wing and zionist party in Israel (election ad)