Islamic Criminal Laws

[syberpriend]

Muslim application of criminal law has often been described as Medieval Draconian
laws. The application of capital punishment has been banned by the UN and the ECC.
1. Punishment in Western penology served three functions: i) Retribution (justification looking to the past – i.e. punishment, revenge); ii) Deterrence (justification looking to the future – i.e. prevention); and iii)Reformation
2. In The Report of the Departmental Committee on Corporal Punishment in England,1938, the committee’s unanimous opinion was that “corporal punishment was of no value as a deterrent and should be abolished.” In 1952, in the USA, Justice Hugo Black wro te: “Retribution is no longer the dominant objective of criminal law.
Reformation and rehabilitation of offenders have become important goals of criminal jurisprudence.” In 1972, Justice Thurgoo d Marshall wro te: “Punishment for the sake of retribution is no t permissible under the Eighth Amendment.” In the same year, California’s capital-punishment law was declared unconstitutional.6 For some criminologists “refo rmatio n” has become synonymous with “cure”. The criminal is no longer a “bad man” but a “sick man.”7 A convict needs treatment. He is genuinely ill, perhaps physically, almost certainly mentally, and psychiatrically.
3. The Abolition of the Death Penalty Act of 1965 cancelled capital punishment for murder. The Home Secretary announced on 22nd April 1970 that 172 convicted murderers had been released from prison since 1960, most of them having only served nine years or less of their statutory life sentence. Only five served 12 o r more years, nine served 6 or less and one completed only 6 months.8 These are not cases of mistaken ruling which was corrected. These were convicted murderers being let out on the public due to their good behavior in prison. Many of them killed again, only to be sentenced for a few more years.
4. Western penologists have admitted that the penal system has failed utterly in
reforming and rehabilitating criminals. Petty criminals enter the system and exit as
well trained hardened criminals. Society ends up paying for the crimes committed
against it by being obliged to provide food, clothing and shelter for criminals.
5. In the Islaamic system, punishments are placed in three categories: i) Hudood :
Punishments prescribed by God in a revealed text of the Quraan or Sunnah, the
application o f which is the right of God (Haqq Allaah). 6 offenses: drinking alcohol;theft; armed robbery; illicit sex [homosexual, pedophilia, bestiality]; sexual slander;and apostasy. In a penal context, the punishment is (a) prescribed in the public interest; (b) cannot be lightened or made heavier; and (c) after being reported to the judge it cannotbe pardoned by either the judge, political authority, or the victim [Qur’aan, (2): 229]. ii) Qisaas: Retaliation. Punishment prescribed in Islaamic law for murder and injury wherein an injury of equal severity is inflicted. iii) Taµzeer :Discretionary.
is an expression of the community’s disapproval of crime, and if this retribution is not given recognition then the disapproval may also disappear...”9 The element of retribution – vengeance, if you will – does not make punishment cruel and unusual, it makes punishment intelligible.Leo Page wrote: “Law exists for the protection of the community. It is not necessary to show that capital punishment is an absolute preventative of murder, or even that it is the only deterrent. If it can be shown that it is more effective as a deterrent than any other punishment, then I shall be satisfied that it should be retained. To hold otherwise is surely to forget the innocent victims of murder in the interest of their murderers. And I have no doubt at all that fear of the gallows is the most powerful of all deterrents.”10
.

 

[syberpriend]

6. During the Ottoman administration of the Arabian peninsula hudood punishments were not applied. In the late 1920’s the Saudi regime reintroduced them and the crime rate fell noticeably. The hadd for theft up to 1970 was not implemented more than twice per year. Six months after the introduction of Sharee µah in the Sudan, crime decreased by more than 40% despite President Jaffar Numeiri’s release o f 13,000 prisoners at the time of decreeing Islamic law because they were not sentenced under the Shareeµah. Since the introduction o f Islaamic law in Iran, crime has dropped significantly
7. Retribution is obvious in hudood punishments from their severity and the prohibition of mediation. And retaliation in qisaas as Allaah said (2:179) : “In retaliatory punishment there is life for you, o people of understanding, in order that you fear God.” Goodheart stated in 195 3: “Retribution in punishment
MURDER
1. In the West, homicide is a crime in which the state must intervene and apply
punishment. Consequently, punishment for homicide in the West became arbitrary
and lacking any uniformity. Studies in the 60s showed that black Americans were
sentenced to death for crimes which white Americans were o nly “doing time.” In
Islaam, homicide is considered a civil wrong (tort). It is up to those who suffered the loss (the victim’s relatives) to decide on punishment or pardon. Qisaas may be private justice or personal revenge either by i) execution; ii) deeyah; or iii) complete pardon (2: 178). However, even after execution has been ordered by the court remission is possible. This principle is uniform and leaves the right to pardon in the hands of those harmed.
2. Crimes of passion will not be eliminated by the death penalty. Public execution
discourages premeditated murder. Where a person knows that he or she will only
have to face life imprisonment (6-9years) for murder, if caught, they will be more
willing to take the chance. But, where the consequence is possible death, they will
think twice or thrice before going ahead with a murder. In the West, the execution of murderers takes place in prisons it is only viewed by a few members of the press, prison officials and the family o f the murderer and the murdered. Consequently, for the society at large it is only a statistic. The execution has no personal impact on the individual members of so ciety. In the Muslim state large segments of the society are invited to view the execution so they will convey it to the rest of the society.
THEFT
The media often refers the “hacking off” of the thief’s hand in order to portray the most gruesome picture possible of the implementation of Islaamic criminal law.
1. The Qur’aan prescribes amputation in Chapter 5: 38 “As for thieves, both male and female, cut off their hands as recompense for their deeds and an exemplary
punishment from Allaah.. .” However, there are conditions under which this law is to be applied.
2. The law of amputation is not applied under the following circumstances:
i) During times of famine or starvation. If a person steals food to prevent starvation,his hand will not be amputated. If he steals property because of the opportunity in a time of natural disaster, he is a criminal whose hand should be removed.
ii) If a worker stole from a boss who had withheld his pay. Instead the boss would be penalized as long as the amount stolen was not more than was owed in back wages.
iii) If the property taken was public property. For example, rugs or fittings in a
mosque, or seats from public transport.
iv) If the value of the property was less than 10 dirhams.
v) If the item stolen was not in its proper place (i.e., it was accidentally left
somewhere and thus became temptation). The professional pickpocket or burglar
have made theft a way of life.
3. The right hand is surgically removed at the wrist and not hacked off by a meat cleaver or a chain saw, as media reports seem to imply. The left foot at the ankle is removed on the second occasion and on the third occasion he may be executed as incorrigible.This is law is implemented publicly for the purpose of deterrence.

 

[syberpriend]

MUSLIMS OPPOSE PERSONAL FREEDOMS LIKE FREE SEX
Adultery and fornication have been decriminalized in the West due to the rapidly
changing moral standards. Consequently, critics of Islaam often point the finger o f blame at the severe punishments assigned to them.
1. The laws regarding adultery and fornication are purely based o n mo rality. It is a part of a system in which all acts and relatio nships are measured by a scale of moral evaluation. The Western moral principle of consenting adults rejects punishment in cases where there is no discernable harm to the adults involved. On the other hand, Islaam holds that adultery and fornication are crimes against society when they become public knowldege. They attack the foundations of the community; the family.
2. Proof of guilt is limited to pregnancy, co nfession or the testimony o f four adult
Muslim eye-witnesses to the act. The chances of such an act occurring publicly are very small, especially in Muslim society where PDAs (public displays o f affection) are strongly discouraged. On the other hand, in the West where it is common for a man to kiss his guest’s wife and his guest to kiss the man’s wife, and PDAs are considered normal, the chance of public sex occurring is greater. For example, on a recent New York-London flight in the first-class section, a married man copulated with the woman sitting next to him after a few drinks. They completely ignored the protests of other passengers and the flight attendants and were both arrested on arrival in London Heathrow airport.
3. The law is primarily a deterrent as it requires four eye-witnesses for implementation.
The punishment for fornication, 100 lashes might seem sufficient to cause death in
many people. However, the one implementing the punishment is not allowed to raise his hand above his shoulder level. It is the embarrassment and shame to one’s family and reputation which discourages people from breaking the law. The fact that the penalty is executed publicly (24: 2) clearly indicates that its goal is to protect public morality and safeguard it against corruption.
4. The goal of such punishments is the protection of the family structure which
represents the foundation of the society. A society in which adultery and fornication are condoned is one in which family has little or no meaning. Infact, once adultery and fornication became decriminalized in the 60’s, wife-swapping parties and orgies became country wide rages. Since that period, such practices have entered mainstream behavior at parties and no longer cause any surprise

 

[darkendless]

Punishments are barbaric. Why such violence. For a peaceful people Islam enforces (still) cruel punishments. People have no chance of comming back to society after being lashed 100 times or having their hand removed.

If the west is such a bad place to live why are our shores being invaded day by day by muslims who seek a life of freedom, rather than living in fear of waking up to an AK-47 muzzle?

 

[syberpriend]

Punishments are barbaric. Why such violence. For a peaceful people Islam enforces (still) cruel punishments. People have no chance of comming back to society after being lashed 100 times or having their hand removed.

If the west is such a bad place to live why are our shores being invaded day by day by muslims who seek a life of freedom, rather than living in fear of waking up to an AK-47 muzzle?

My friend, dont just look on topic, read fulll inside and thn give ur valuable comments.
Also read these articles as well, and findout the answers urself which one u like.

Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
WikiAnswers - Highest crime city in the world

Rapes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
List of Rape Myths
The Ins and Outs or Adultery

 

[Gharib]

If the west is such a bad place to live why are our shores being invaded day by day by muslims who seek a life of freedom, rather than living in fear of waking up to an AK-47 muzzle?

we are only in your shores so we can spread the message of islam in a peaceful manner, it is a muslims dutie to do that, unlike the barbaric way your queen spread her message to the aborignals.

 

[Gharib]

great thread brother Syberpriend.

 

[darkendless]

we are only in your shores so we can spread the message of islam in a peaceful manner, it is a muslims dutie to do that, unlike the barbaric way your queen spread her message to the aborignals.

Preaching is unwelcome in our country. You would do yourself a favour to remember such a thing in public.

Question:

Why does a rape allegation require 4 male witnesses. Why not 4 female witnesses? Why not 2 witnesses? Given that why lashings? We have much more humane punishment these days so why not use it rather than sticking to traditional, permanenetly disfiguring methods?

Why do people lose their hands for stealing? Wouldn't losing their freedom for a period of time be enough? I do not see a reason for people to be disfigured.

What is wrong with kissing another mans wife on the cheek? We do it all the time as a sign of friendship. I do not understand this attempt to attack western culture.

In regards to the death penalty: death is the easy way out. Given that, selected officials perform the activity to ensure people are not detrimentally affected by the act. Why would anyone want to see a man/woman killed?

These are simple questions. I do not want to be too detailed because in all honesty i have no clue about Islamic law and punishment so i do not want to ask questions of which the answers i will not understand.

 

[England my lionheart]

Interesting thread,i have no problem with the death sentence for murder but i do have a huge problem with punishment for Apostacy and Adultery,neither should be punished and as for the actual punishments i see no logic in cutting the hands off a thief or one foot and one hand on opposite sides as this will impair the ability of the thief from rehabilitating into society ie jobs etc,thats apart from the Human rights issue.
The other part i have issue with is Rape and the process of the victim reporting a Rape,the number of witnesses required the result of the victim losing her case which from an outside view reeks of sex decrimination.
Overall places like Saudi,Pakistan,Iran etc are where Europe was 500 years ago regarding crime and punishment but perhaps somewhere in between would be the right way to go,maybe the West (i dislike that term) is too lenient,i certainly think so but killing people for their concience or for love is IMO disgraceful and due to some ahadith and the nasty Sharia Hudood punishments.

 

[Gharib]

Preaching is unwelcome in our country. You would do yourself a favour to remember such a thing in public.

muslims don't preach, i've told you that already. no muslim told you to come in this thread, you came in yourself. see, point proven.

Question:

Why does a rape allegation require 4 male witnesses. Why not 4 female witnesses? Why not 2 witnesses? Given that why lashings? We have much more humane punishment these days so why not use it rather than sticking to traditional, permanenetly disfiguring methods?

rape?
first let me explain to you your misconception then you can ask further questions afterwards.

the 4 witnesses are to be provided by a person who accuses a chaste woman of adultery. read the verses:

24:4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),--flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;--
24:5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Why do people lose their hands for stealing?

well they won't have a hand to steal no more . same reason why the west jails theives, so that they do not steal no more but both you and i know that method doesn't work. the punishments of islam are the way they are because people should fear commiting crimes and not to get encouraged by a little prison where they get paid doing time and do no work.

Wouldn't losing their freedom for a period of time be enough?

you mean like in the west? well personally i consider that a weakness. for every punishment, the west takes peoples freedom for a period of time and you will find the same person commiting crimes over and over and lossing his freedom way many more times than he can remember. the west is encouraging crime. a criminal has more rights than the victim. if you don't believe me read this, the verdict was given today.

I do not see a reason for people to be disfigured.

i do. everyone will stop commiting crimes. but if the punishment is weak then no one gives a damn about it, just like in the west.

What is wrong with kissing another mans wife on the cheek? We do it all the time as a sign of friendship. I do not understand this attempt to attack western culture.

let me ask you something darkendless, but i do not mean it to offend you, so please do not take it the wrong way.

if your friend as a sign of friendship wanted to have sex with your wife, would you agree? again i do not mean to offend.

while you think about that, go here to read why islam does not allow men to touch other women

In regards to the death penalty: death is the easy way out. Given that, selected officials perform the activity to ensure people are not detrimentally affected by the act. Why would anyone want to see a man/woman killed?

all the punishments that i know of are done in the middle of the town and in the open so that everyone sees what the punishment is. in the west you do know that when a punishment is carried out, people barely hear about it. so people do not fear the punishment and thus they commit crimes. if you saw a man getting lashed infront of everyone for having pre-marital sex, tell me, would you go and have pre-marital sex afterwards?

These are simple questions. I do not want to be too detailed because in all honesty i have no clue about Islamic law and punishment so i do not want to ask questions of which the answers i will not understand.

i can get you some links that may explain the punishments. don't have them at the moment but can find some if you want.

i hope you understand my answers to your questions, if not then don't be shy of asking again.

 

[England my lionheart]

The Hudood ordinance used by Pakistan since 1979 does require four pious Male witnesses unless the victim can provide other proof,if She fails She will be tried for Adultery.

This is what Muhammed said concerning Rape:
“The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”

 

[Gharib]

The Hudood ordinance used by Pakistan since 1979 does require four pious Male witnesses unless the victim can provide other proof,if She fails She will be tried for Adultery.

This is what Muhammed said concerning Rape:
“The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”

thats not for rape, but for adultery.

did you read the verses?

the 4 witnesses are to be provided by a person who accuses a chaste woman of adultery. read the verses:

24:4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),--flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;--
24:5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

one misconseption sorted out, any more?

 

[England my lionheart]

thats not for rape, but for adultery.

did you read the verses?

the 4 witnesses are to be provided by a person who accuses a chaste woman of adultery. read the verses:

24:4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),--flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;--
24:5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

one misconseption sorted out, any more?

I cannot debate here but the misconception isn't mine,there is no distinction in Pakistan between rape and Adultery

 

[Gharib]

I cannot debate hear but the misconception isn't mine,there is no distinction in Pakistan between rape and Adultery

pakistan does not represent islam nor it's laws. the question asked was why in islam a woman needs 4 male witnesses in order to make a rape complaint, and as far as i can tell i gave the answer to that. if you want to argue why pakistan consideres rape and adultery the same then i'm not the person who you should be talking to.

 

[Fatihah]

Punishments are barbaric. Why such violence. For a peaceful people Islam enforces (still) cruel punishments. People have no chance of comming back to society after being lashed 100 times or having their hand removed.

If the west is such a bad place to live why are our shores being invaded day by day by muslims who seek a life of freedom, rather than living in fear of waking up to an AK-47 muzzle?

Response: You would have a point if in fact the western borders were invaded day by day with muslims. However, it's not.

 

[England my lionheart]

pakistan does not represent islam nor it's laws. the question asked was why in islam a woman needs 4 male witnesses in order to make a rape complaint, and as far as i can tell i gave the answer to that. if you want to argue why pakistan consideres rape and adultery the same then i'm not the person who you should be talking to.

Its well known Eselam that different Islamic states have different versions of Sharia,fortunately Sharia Hud punishments will never happen here thank goodness.

 

[Gharib]

Its well known Eselam that different Islamic states have different versions of Sharia,fortunately Sharia Hud punishments will never happen here thank goodness.

where'd you get the islamic state from? they'd need to have a caliph in order to be islamic. they may be ruled by muslims but they aren't islamic.

if you want to read some more on the 4 witness thing then read the following:

Does Islam require four witnesses for rape?


9 December 2006

Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi
Does Islam really require four witness for rape victims? This is a common argument used by those who usually attempt to make a false analogy with adultery by inferring from the following Qur’anic injunction:

“And those who accuse chaste women [of adultery] and then do not produce four witnesses — lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient. Except for those who repent thereafter and reform, for indeed Allaah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
​

That this myth was repeated by none other than the former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr. Mahathir at an UMNO General Assembly meeting had greatly contributed to the misconception that Islam requires four witnesses for rape:

If four witnesses were to merely watch a woman being raped and not attempt to help her, would they not be regarded as having sinned (for allowing a woman to be raped) and are not be fit to be witnesses?” he said. Under Pas’ hudud also, rape victims would in turn become the accused in the event that she could not make the four witnesses available.
​

Unfortunately for such people, this fallacy of equivocation has no basis in Islamic jurisdictions and the punishment for rape (which is defined as forced sexual intercourse) is certainly not equivalent to the punishment of adultery. Insha’allah, in what follows we aim to deal with this issue once and for all by breaking it down into several points so as to enable easy understanding.

The claim that rape victims require four witnesses to seek justice for their case is untrue and a false lie
​

The claim that rape victims require four witnesses to seek justice for their case is untrue and a false lie propagated by those who either do not have any knowledge in Islamic law or want to “prove” a so-called weakness in the hadd laws. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient and the judge can invoke his judgment based upon takzir (his own discretion).
If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female), only then he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation: “And those who accuse chaste women [of adultery] and then do not produce four witnesses….”; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam.

To insist that the raped victim must provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public.
This is based on what the Prophet Muhammad (P) had once said:

“The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”
​

Further, the Prophet (P) was reported to have said that:

“Allah (T) has pardoned my people for the acts they do by mistake, due to forgetfulness and what they are coerced into doing.”
​

An event concerning rape had in fact led towards the Prophet Muhammad (P) punishing a rapist without demanding or even hinting for four witnesses:

“Narrated Wa’il ibn Hujr: “When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (P) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered [raped] her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That [man] did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.
She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (P).
When he [the Prophet] was about to pass sentence, the man who [actually] had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.
He [the Prophet] said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words [Abu Dawud said: "meaning the man who was seized"], and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: “Stone him to death.“
​

It should also be noted that it was related by Ibn Abi Shaybah through Târiq b. Shahab that a woman accused with adultery was taken to Caliph `Umar. The woman pleaded that she was asleep and woke up to find the man over her. `Umar released the woman.
Based on the above sayings of the Prophet (P) and the events associated with it, the jurist Ibn Qudamah had stated as follows in his book al-Mughnî:

“If a woman becomes pregnant without having a husband or a master, she may not be punished and, in stead, she should be asked about it, if she claimed that she was coerced into it or that she committed adultery under dubious circumstances, or if she simply does not confess adultery then she will not be punished. This is the saying of Abu Hanîfah and al-Shâfi`î, because she may be pregnant as a result of a forceful intercourse or dubious circumstances. Punishment will be abandoned in case suspicion exists. It is well known that a woman could become pregnant without committing the real intercourse. The woman may become pregnant if sperm is manually inserted into her vagina. This would explain how a virgin becomes pregnant.”
​

We can now see that a testimony of the raped woman suffices in exonerating her from adultery and that Islam recognises the crime of rape and that a raped woman will not be punished for such a crime that was inflicted upon her.
So what really is the punishment for rape?

This of course is as opposed to what the Bible teaches about the punishment for rape
​

According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Qur’an. This of course is as opposed to what the Bible teaches about the punishment for rape. For example, we read that:

“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”
​

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Is there any justice in forcing the raped woman to marry her rapist and bound her to him for the rest of his life? Further we also read another example that the Bible teaches that the rape victim should be punished with death:

“If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife.”
​

This injunction of course leaves little to the imagination. We will leave the reader to form their own conclusions. We hope that the above explanation that was given had made it clear that in Islam, rape victims are not required to “bring four witnesses” as alleged and that Judeo-Christianity has a much harsher law for rape when compared to Islam. Further reading on the issue can be found in the article, Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses?
And only God knows best!

Does Islam require four witnesses for rape?

 

[England my lionheart]

Whatever you wish to believe Eselam but IMO Sharia sucks,its out of date and is so open to interpretation as we can all see.

 

[syberpriend]

Interesting thread,i have no problem with the death sentence for murder but i do have a huge problem with punishment for Apostacy and Adultery,neither should be punished and as for the actual punishments i see no logic in cutting the hands off a thief or one foot and one hand on opposite sides as this will impair the ability of the thief from rehabilitating into society ie jobs etc,thats apart from the Human rights issue.
U call for human rights,dont u see the statistics, the high crime rate is all in the non-muslim countries, if some1 rape ur sister or wife, u will let him go for the sake of humanity? Read the thread completly my friend, after implementing the law, the crime rate drops a lot in muslim countries, it means ppl are afraid of doing such kind of crime, coz they get lesson from the punishments.
The other part i have issue with is Rape and the process of the victim reporting a Rape,the number of witnesses required the result of the victim losing her case which from an outside view reeks of sex decrimination.
Its not much difficult now to catch and punish the rapist now, u can do medical test and it will prove, and most of the cases are solved easily, unlike western countries, where this stats is still getting high n high.
Overall places like Saudi,Pakistan,Iran etc are where Europe was 500 years ago regarding crime and punishment but perhaps somewhere in between would be the right way to go,maybe the West (i dislike that term) is too lenient,i certainly think so but killing people for their concience or for love is IMO disgraceful and due to some ahadith and the nasty Sharia Hudood punishments.

u like ur wife with some other man? how disguisting u r , we respect ur ladies, and same they do us, coz of this punishment, and fear of Allah, muslims are less involded in adultery.

 

[syberpriend]

Whatever you wish to believe Eselam but IMO Sharia sucks,its out of date and is so open to interpretation as we can all see.

Check again the stats, u make out of date pornographhy, whole of west is involved in this, now legal rights gays and lesbians have, before 40-50 yrs it was illegal, now child pornography is illegal, after few years it will be legal also in your countries, do u knw, prostitution is legal in Englandd? How disgusting....