Shakeel
Well-Known Member
They're heavily present in Islam.
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Islam: when is a person considered a Muslim?
- Thread starter Meow Mix
- Start date
I know most Muslims aren’t sociopathic. Most Muslims don’t dispassionately talk about murdering children, or get confused about why someone might tell the truth out of principle in the face of death.
Just not when killing kids, is that part brushed under the rug then?
“I’m very empathetic, excuse me while I send my child off to be killed”
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about most Muslims, I'm talking about devout Muslims in general: Muslims like me. I happen to know quite a few and they are the kindest people I know. Feel free to show how we are "sociopathic".
I am 100% certain most people find it idiotic to tell the truth when a little lie prevents you from getting killed.
How about, "I'm very empathetic, excuse me while I teach my child Islam so that he would not burn in hell for an eternity."
The punishment of execution protects the society and everyone in it.
Probably to everyone, but their victims and maybe even to some of them. Are you going to tell us all nazis were sociopaths, too? I'm afraid you can't blame that on mental illness either.
This is how your beliefs are sociopathic: you’re defending literal child murder. It’s that simple.
With one hand you’d “protect” the child while with the other you’d slit their throat while sending them to Hell (according to you). A dead child has a 0% chance of embracing Islam, an alive child has nonzero chances.
If your society is so weak that someone merely existing skeptically of barbaric beliefs threatens it, that seems like your problem. Any child in their right mind would doubt these murderous beliefs, for good reason.
I’m saying the beliefs are sociopathic in nature.
If you find yourself justifying child murder, Shakeel, you just might be holding onto some bad guy beliefs.
I’d believe that Shaitan was real and has tricked you before I’d believe that this interpretation of god you believe in is “good.” And so would any child that hasn’t had their mind twisted beyond recognition.
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My good friend is a conservative Muslim. He'd probably cry if he read some of the things you wrote in this discussion. Firstly, because he dearly loves children, and the idea of harming one would deeply affect him. Secondly, because it is due to some of the shared sentiments here that Islam faces such negative scrutiny worldwide, and he hates this.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
It's not murder when it's legal.
Sociopathic is defined by the dictionary as characterised by asocial or antisocial behaviour or as being unconcerned for the consequences of one's actions to others. I fail to see any justification for using the word the way you do and I have to assume you use it as a power word.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
If he rejects the punishment for apostasy, he's probably not conservative, but modern - or, if you don't mind, wrong. With a small chance that he's ignorant. I don't know what loving children has to do with it. People who love dogs get the dog killed if it attacks them and it results to great harm. Love is conditional.
Also, I do believe you're a woman? If that's the case and he is a good friend of yours... Then he's not a conservative Muslim. What does conservative mean to you anyway?
Your defense of killing a child is “it’s not murder if it’s legal,” and you think using “sociopathic” to describe this is a “power word.”
And I see this post came after you compared a child being skeptical to a dog attacking someone and then you said “love is conditional.” About a child. A child that may simply be skeptical that a good god would command the death of children for mere skepticism. Nice.
I hope some day you take a good, long look in the mirror and think about some things.
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Like you mentioned before, Islam teaches mercy. And most Muslims are merciful. Even Allah instructs believers to leave the 'unbelievers' to him. In verse 45.14 it says:
"Tell those who believe that they should pardon those who do not hope for the coming of the Days of God (when He will make them understand what their unbelief means), seeing that He will recompense people for what they have earned."
Pardon. Hm.
I admit I was a little surprised that he sought me out as a friend, but I suspect this is allowed because he is about my son's age; meaning I am old enough to have mothered him. (He is young.)
He is extremely observant, and what Islam lays out for him is what he wants. He has told me in his country(which is a Muslim majority one) he sometimes faces trouble with others because he's viewed as being too conservative; I take his word for it. He does not, however, condone violence against anyone.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
Seriously, what's with the constant distortion of what I say? My saying it's not murder is not a defense, it's me pointing out a fact. Now, I don't care what you call it from your point of view, but you're mixing that with my point of view and viewing it as murder in general, which is simply incorrect use of language.
Yes. It's not what sociopathic means. Besides, you're all about power words.
I hope you learn to debate someday instead of throwing a myriad of personal insults in hopes one will eventually sink in.
I know how to debate when the subject matter isn’t beneath contempt. I will not entertain killing children academically. I will call it what it is.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
I told you - women are emotional.
Psh, now look who’s poking the bear.
I think we should be emotional when someone is defending killing children. That’s a natural reaction, for good reason. That has nothing to do with being a woman.
I'm a man, and I believe what you've argued for in this thread is literally murderous dogma. Trying to undermine another's argument by ascribing emotion to their gender is dubious logic at best; it's a sexist ad hominem.
The interpretation of what "mercy" and "respect" stand for from an Islamic perspective clearly varies among many Muslims, since millions of Muslims certainly don't believe that one can be "merciful" or "respectful" while condoning the killing of people for changing their religion.
Actions are worth a lot more than mere words are. If you claim to support mercy and respect but support inhumanely violent and oppressive beliefs, then it seems to me your worldview is inconsistent. Simple as that.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
I don't see anyone else sounding emotional. Just pointing it out since it became so convenient and you don't seem to accept this natural side of being a woman.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
But you don't sound emotional. It's not the same as having emotions.
Undermining what argument? It's not sexist. It's a fact. If nature is sexist to you, blame nature not the researchers. Besides, I am of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with a woman being feminine, but some women find it insulting to be somehow differentiated from men.