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Islam and women
- Thread starter Melody
- Start date
egroen
Member
The problem comes when this practice is brought over to western countries, where obviously a large culture clash occurs. I went to school in the detroit area, which has a large muslim population. Many of the girls resented having to wear a veil, and flaunted their rebellion, often rebelling more than a typical teenager might, because of what they viewed in western culture as extremely strict parents.
At the other end, the boys and young men in school became even more 'macho' in their attempts to 'protect' their sisters and cousins. Fights where gangs of arab boys would beat up others (non-arabs) for simply talking to, talking about, or heaven forbid, dating the arab girls. In fact, they were largely out of control with their 'machismo.'
Being of middle eastern heritage, but not muslim, I would often endure insults ("****," whore," "tramp" etc.) from arab boys and girls. I would like to point out there are many levels of dress between "falunting it" and a veil, thank you.
-Erin
At the other end, the boys and young men in school became even more 'macho' in their attempts to 'protect' their sisters and cousins. Fights where gangs of arab boys would beat up others (non-arabs) for simply talking to, talking about, or heaven forbid, dating the arab girls. In fact, they were largely out of control with their 'machismo.'
Being of middle eastern heritage, but not muslim, I would often endure insults ("****," whore," "tramp" etc.) from arab boys and girls. I would like to point out there are many levels of dress between "falunting it" and a veil, thank you.
-Erin
Melody said:
I'm a man that's why i'll let an educated woman to tell you why. I believe most of the muslim sisters in here answered you already but if you want to know more so read in the link about:
"How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?" - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296
egroen
Member
Detroit also has a very large chaldean population, which are Iraqi Catholics. They *hate* Saddam Hussien; whom, despite being essentially a secular ruler himself, he has persecuted christians, kurds and shiites in order to gain favor with the large sunni population in Iraq.
The traditional relgion of Persia is Zoarastrianism, which is one of the oldest religions in the world (and had a large impact on christianity); they have since been largely chased out of Iran (those who were not killed). Many have fled to India and some of my family still secretly practice in Iran.
-Erin
The traditional relgion of Persia is Zoarastrianism, which is one of the oldest religions in the world (and had a large impact on christianity); they have since been largely chased out of Iran (those who were not killed). Many have fled to India and some of my family still secretly practice in Iran.
-Erin
Jaymes
The cake is a lie
-mod-
Even though this is in the Abrahamic Religions section of the DIR forums, that does not mean that everyone that follows an Abrahamic religion is free to make snide remarks about other Abrahamic religions. This section is specifically for education and fellowship among people that follow Abrahamic religions. If you have any questions or concerns about posts that may break this rule, please report them.
-mod-
Even though this is in the Abrahamic Religions section of the DIR forums, that does not mean that everyone that follows an Abrahamic religion is free to make snide remarks about other Abrahamic religions. This section is specifically for education and fellowship among people that follow Abrahamic religions. If you have any questions or concerns about posts that may break this rule, please report them.
-mod-
hello melody
well i was never beaten or negelected by my family or any one else. i'll tell you what turned me on the most to islam.
muhammad was the only person who truly stuck up for women. he did more for women than christ himself ever did.
the purpose of the veil is for respect if a woman is covered, than it makes it hard for a man to view her as a piece of meat for he is forced to deal with her intellect.
to kill an infant because it was born a girl was and still is outlawed
to
well i was never beaten or negelected by my family or any one else. i'll tell you what turned me on the most to islam.
muhammad was the only person who truly stuck up for women. he did more for women than christ himself ever did.
the purpose of the veil is for respect if a woman is covered, than it makes it hard for a man to view her as a piece of meat for he is forced to deal with her intellect.
to kill an infant because it was born a girl was and still is outlawed
to
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
how can you say for sure? were you there during the lives of both of these men?almifkhar said:
*nods* very cool, I always wondered about that
Should men and women be under the same laws of protection concerning the veil? why or why not?
... I may start another thread on this
hello melody
i got to tell you that i am educated and have never been beaten or abused in any way shape or form by my parents or anyone else for that matter. my muslim husband treats me like the queen that i am.
islam is not a religion for men, it is a religion of unity and equality. for example, (and i am not trying to bash the bible so please don't take it that way) the bible states that it was eve who cursed mankind by her sin. the quran states that both adam and eve cursed mankind because of their sins.
the purpose of veiling is for respect. if a woman is veiled and a man cannot see what her beauty looks like than he is forced to deal with her mind. a woman is never to be viewed as a peice of meat for a man to use and violate.
the purpose of men working outside the home and women working inside the home is for the survival of society. a womans most sacred job is the raising of her childern. if our children are not getting the attention, love and support that children need from mom, than society falls apart. don't believe it, just look around at our american society. the other purpose of this is that man has a hard time multitasking and for a woman this is easy to do for it is our nature to be able to do this.
muslim sisters were given the right to own property and businesses long before christian sisters were allowed such a thing and this happened only after political pressure, not religious pressure.
we are allowed and incuraged to gain education especially were religious matters are concerned. yes we can only apporched the iman with a male close relative, but did not paul say that a woman could only ask her husband about religious matters and was not allowed to speak in church let alone to the preist?
every muslim father has to teach his children both boys and girls how to fire a gun, swim and ride a horse. for these are lessons of survival.
you see, muhammad was the first man to understand the plight of women and girls. he said that a father should show more favortism to his daughters because they are the ones who tend to be abused. he was the first one to outlaw the buying and selling of women and female infantcide. further it is said that a man who has more daughters than sons is blessed.
as far as sex goes, the only requirement of the women is to give to her husband sex with in reason. he has to dance to what she says. if he comes to her and says that he wants her to have anal sex or invite another person into the bed, this is a sin and this is disrespectful and she has every right to refuse and go so far as to request a divorce. nor can he rape her!
basically what muhammad was saying and putting down as law was that if women are mentally and physically messed up, society will fall apart. perhaps you read too much into what western feminism says. keep in mind, western feminism says that we women should act and be just like men. they are the ones who have underminded us ladies. we are not men and we think differently than men do so how can we be like men? why would any self respecting women want to be like a man? another thing to note is that islam forces men to be men. this is a mans world right? well than they are obligated to be the main provider, protecter, and fathers for their wives an children. i can't believe my so called educated western sisters allow them to run away from their obligations. it blows my mind to see so many single mothers who support a man who wont marry them let alone help pay a bill or put a chicken on the table. i don't have these problems with my muslim husband for we both know that we stand at an equal level. and i have islam to thank for that.
i got to tell you that i am educated and have never been beaten or abused in any way shape or form by my parents or anyone else for that matter. my muslim husband treats me like the queen that i am.
islam is not a religion for men, it is a religion of unity and equality. for example, (and i am not trying to bash the bible so please don't take it that way) the bible states that it was eve who cursed mankind by her sin. the quran states that both adam and eve cursed mankind because of their sins.
the purpose of veiling is for respect. if a woman is veiled and a man cannot see what her beauty looks like than he is forced to deal with her mind. a woman is never to be viewed as a peice of meat for a man to use and violate.
the purpose of men working outside the home and women working inside the home is for the survival of society. a womans most sacred job is the raising of her childern. if our children are not getting the attention, love and support that children need from mom, than society falls apart. don't believe it, just look around at our american society. the other purpose of this is that man has a hard time multitasking and for a woman this is easy to do for it is our nature to be able to do this.
muslim sisters were given the right to own property and businesses long before christian sisters were allowed such a thing and this happened only after political pressure, not religious pressure.
we are allowed and incuraged to gain education especially were religious matters are concerned. yes we can only apporched the iman with a male close relative, but did not paul say that a woman could only ask her husband about religious matters and was not allowed to speak in church let alone to the preist?
every muslim father has to teach his children both boys and girls how to fire a gun, swim and ride a horse. for these are lessons of survival.
you see, muhammad was the first man to understand the plight of women and girls. he said that a father should show more favortism to his daughters because they are the ones who tend to be abused. he was the first one to outlaw the buying and selling of women and female infantcide. further it is said that a man who has more daughters than sons is blessed.
as far as sex goes, the only requirement of the women is to give to her husband sex with in reason. he has to dance to what she says. if he comes to her and says that he wants her to have anal sex or invite another person into the bed, this is a sin and this is disrespectful and she has every right to refuse and go so far as to request a divorce. nor can he rape her!
basically what muhammad was saying and putting down as law was that if women are mentally and physically messed up, society will fall apart. perhaps you read too much into what western feminism says. keep in mind, western feminism says that we women should act and be just like men. they are the ones who have underminded us ladies. we are not men and we think differently than men do so how can we be like men? why would any self respecting women want to be like a man? another thing to note is that islam forces men to be men. this is a mans world right? well than they are obligated to be the main provider, protecter, and fathers for their wives an children. i can't believe my so called educated western sisters allow them to run away from their obligations. it blows my mind to see so many single mothers who support a man who wont marry them let alone help pay a bill or put a chicken on the table. i don't have these problems with my muslim husband for we both know that we stand at an equal level. and i have islam to thank for that.
one more thing to note about the veil, for myself i found it liberating and the cat calls ended. oppression is not a peice of cloth on a womens head, body and or face. oppression is when one is raped, denied a livable wage, beaten, talked down apon, viewed as nothing but a cash machine and peice of meat. this is oppression and it happens to women all over the world. this is what should be focused on.
hello buttons
my post kinda got botched up when i started to write the first time around. as far as men are concerned in dress and attitude they to are to be respectful and modest. they are supose to cover their heads especially durring prayer (my husband would never be caught dead outside with out a hat or gutra(traditional mens head scarfs you see in the arab world). they are not allowed to wear gold, red, and are not to cover their ankles (especially durring prayer), they must cover their bodies and cannot show anything except their head, neck, fore arms, from the knees down to the feet. they are not allowed to run around and womanize.
how do i know about the prophet being the first guy to stand up for women? i am an advad reader(not much of a speller though) and i am especially intrested in ancient history, religion, and philosophy and the first person i ever read about sticking up women was muhammad. he to was the first to put these things into law and these laws ushered in the ideal society. no matter how one wants to look at it, this is a man who saw how unbalanced society really was. he realized the root cause of this imbalance and that cause was the strangle hold grip that man had over society, religion, etc. one could say this was a revelation by god and this man did as he was told and delivered the message to the people or you could say this was a wise man who observed what was going on and realized that if this kept going on it would be the demise of society. both ways of looking at it works for me. this is why i say this was the first guy who stuck up for women. i have read many holy books and political ideal society philosophy books and none of them compare with what muhammad did. may god bless and give peace to his soul for he liberated me with his revelations from allah.
my post kinda got botched up when i started to write the first time around. as far as men are concerned in dress and attitude they to are to be respectful and modest. they are supose to cover their heads especially durring prayer (my husband would never be caught dead outside with out a hat or gutra(traditional mens head scarfs you see in the arab world). they are not allowed to wear gold, red, and are not to cover their ankles (especially durring prayer), they must cover their bodies and cannot show anything except their head, neck, fore arms, from the knees down to the feet. they are not allowed to run around and womanize.
how do i know about the prophet being the first guy to stand up for women? i am an advad reader(not much of a speller though) and i am especially intrested in ancient history, religion, and philosophy and the first person i ever read about sticking up women was muhammad. he to was the first to put these things into law and these laws ushered in the ideal society. no matter how one wants to look at it, this is a man who saw how unbalanced society really was. he realized the root cause of this imbalance and that cause was the strangle hold grip that man had over society, religion, etc. one could say this was a revelation by god and this man did as he was told and delivered the message to the people or you could say this was a wise man who observed what was going on and realized that if this kept going on it would be the demise of society. both ways of looking at it works for me. this is why i say this was the first guy who stuck up for women. i have read many holy books and political ideal society philosophy books and none of them compare with what muhammad did. may god bless and give peace to his soul for he liberated me with his revelations from allah.
Purple Thyme
Active Member
Great thread Melody. and I was just wondering what Khalid Muhammed just answered.
kai
ragamuffin
found this site women living under muslim laws it may be of interest
http://www.wluml.org/english/index.shtml
http://www.wluml.org/english/index.shtml
Mystic-als
Active Member
that may be, but enlighten me who else in ancient times not only publicly said and went so far as to put his money where his mouth was and dramatically changed the social position of women? jesus didn't do it, buddah didn't do it, plato didn't do it. not one of them said that women had the right to own property, run a business, become educated by way of reading, and writing, had the right to decide who they would and would not marry, had the right to divorce a man who treated her badly, had the simple right of life, could deny her husband sex if he sugested anything unlawful, said that she would not be forced to marry a man who raped her, and could seek justice against such a man, etc, etc., etc.
i am sure such a man would be remembered considering this was a revoultionary idea that the fellow men of the time would not like for it would mean that they would lose their iron fisted power and an idea that indeed changed the social fabric of a society. and this change was indeed for the better. the call for the rights and dignity of women was one of the many reasons they tried to kill muhammad and he did not budge on his stance and infact earned respect by the neighboring towns for his unwillingness to bend to what the fat cats of his town wanted. he stood up to them even in the face of death to make the nessassary changes needed to change the mindset of the time. that is a great man!
i am sure such a man would be remembered considering this was a revoultionary idea that the fellow men of the time would not like for it would mean that they would lose their iron fisted power and an idea that indeed changed the social fabric of a society. and this change was indeed for the better. the call for the rights and dignity of women was one of the many reasons they tried to kill muhammad and he did not budge on his stance and infact earned respect by the neighboring towns for his unwillingness to bend to what the fat cats of his town wanted. he stood up to them even in the face of death to make the nessassary changes needed to change the mindset of the time. that is a great man!
Mystic-als
Active Member
kai
ragamuffin
It is interesting to note that women had considerable rights in ancient Egypt
Ramesses III boasts in one inscription, "I enabled the woman of Egypt to go her own way, her journeys being extended where she wanted, without any person assaulting her on the road."
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptianwomen.html
Ramesses III boasts in one inscription, "I enabled the woman of Egypt to go her own way, her journeys being extended where she wanted, without any person assaulting her on the road."
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptianwomen.html