Isaiah 9v6 "Everlasting Father"

[moorea944]

Isaiah 9v6 is a verse that is taken out of context many times. Two phrases are much wrestled with are, "Almightly God" and "Everlasting Father". Why would Jesus be called Almighty God and Father. Well, the answer is simple.

1. Almighty God -

It is actually "el gbur". Or power of God. Jesus is the power of God. There are verses that actually tell us that too. Also keep in might that his name "shall be called". This is a future prohecy on his second advent, not first.

2. Everlasting father -

The answer is that Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!

In this same context the saints will qualify as priests in the Kingdom Age, In the First Kingdom Age the priests had to be the sons of the High Priest (from Aaron down). Therefore the priests (immortal) of the restored Kingdom Age will also have to be the children of the High Priest Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that one has to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom. Well Jesus is the Father for this rebirth, on the basis of his sacrifice (as noted in Isaiah 53:10).

The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.

Abraham is also given the title "Father" as he is the Father of the faithful and those baptized into Christ are constituted his children on the basis of faith (Gal 3:27-29). Abraham will qualify as an "Everlasting Father" as well, as he will inherit everlasting life.

There is no reason why a son can't also be a father. I am both a son and a father. My father had a father. The difference is that Yahweh had no beginning. He has no father, unlike Jesus. I certainly have a father, but when (if) I am born again I will necessarily have a new father. That will be Jesus, who also had a father, but his Father didn't have a father.

 

[Kolibri]

Isaiah 9v6 is a verse that is taken out of context many times. Two phrases are much wrestled with are, "Almightly God" and "Everlasting Father". Why would Jesus be called Almighty God and Father. Well, the answer is simple.

1. Almighty God -

It is actually "el gbur". Or power of God. Jesus is the power of God. There are verses that actually tell us that too. Also keep in might that his name "shall be called". This is a future prohecy on his second advent, not first.

2. Everlasting father -

The answer is that Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!

In this same context the saints will qualify as priests in the Kingdom Age, In the First Kingdom Age the priests had to be the sons of the High Priest (from Aaron down). Therefore the priests (immortal) of the restored Kingdom Age will also have to be the children of the High Priest Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that one has to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom. Well Jesus is the Father for this rebirth, on the basis of his sacrifice (as noted in Isaiah 53:10).

The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.

Abraham is also given the title "Father" as he is the Father of the faithful and those baptized into Christ are constituted his children on the basis of faith (Gal 3:27-29). Abraham will qualify as an "Everlasting Father" as well, as he will inherit everlasting life.

There is no reason why a son can't also be a father. I am both a son and a father. My father had a father. The difference is that Yahweh had no beginning. He has no father, unlike Jesus. I certainly have a father, but when (if) I am born again I will necessarily have a new father. That will be Jesus, who also had a father, but his Father didn't have a father.

I agree that Eternal Father is not Almighty God, but I do not agree that Eternal Father is a designation Jesus has in regards to those that are 'born again.'
Those 'born again' are called Christ's brothers, not children. They are directly 'sons of God' with the prospect of sharing in Christ's reward upon a faithful death.
To those who are not 'born again' Jesus could rightly be called an "Eternal Father," as they inherit the right to perfect human life thru him.

This is a point of difference we have not discussed yet - that those who are 'born again' will become "kings and priests" after being resurrected to everlasting and immortal heavenly life.
You and I both agree that for most mankind the reward is earthly.

 

[JayJayDee]

These are indeed the finer points.

Jesus is not called "Almighty God" in Isa 9:6. He is a "mighty god" because he is described as "theos" in Greek. This is what the word means.

Christ's brothers are the Father's children because they are like Jesus, they are sons, adopted by God to be "joint-heirs with Christ".
These "kings and priests" will rule over the ones Christ redeemed. They will live in a restored paradise on earth.

Father literally means "life giver" so in that sense Jesus is also our father.

 

[Yes]

Jesus is the Father.

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Did you read that scripture? Who but a Father will not leave children as orphans?


Read these next two scriptures, they tell us that Jesus is the Rock, and the Rock Fathered us.


See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. 1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


Jesus says those who overcome will be his CHILDREN.

See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.

See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

 

[Yes]

Isaiah 9v6 is a verse that is taken out of context many times. Two phrases are much wrestled with are, "Almightly God" and "Everlasting Father". Why would Jesus be called Almighty God and Father. Well, the answer is simple.

1. Almighty God -

It is actually "el gbur". Or power of God. Jesus is the power of God. There are verses that actually tell us that too. Also keep in might that his name "shall be called". This is a future prohecy on his second advent, not first.

2. Everlasting father -

The answer is that Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!

In this same context the saints will qualify as priests in the Kingdom Age, In the First Kingdom Age the priests had to be the sons of the High Priest (from Aaron down). Therefore the priests (immortal) of the restored Kingdom Age will also have to be the children of the High Priest Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that one has to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom. Well Jesus is the Father for this rebirth, on the basis of his sacrifice (as noted in Isaiah 53:10).

The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.

Abraham is also given the title "Father" as he is the Father of the faithful and those baptized into Christ are constituted his children on the basis of faith (Gal 3:27-29). Abraham will qualify as an "Everlasting Father" as well, as he will inherit everlasting life.

There is no reason why a son can't also be a father. I am both a son and a father. My father had a father. The difference is that Yahweh had no beginning. He has no father, unlike Jesus. I certainly have a father, but when (if) I am born again I will necessarily have a new father. That will be Jesus, who also had a father, but his Father didn't have a father.

There is ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[moorea944]

There is ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Yes, I totally agree with you. Finally, eh? Yahweh is the one true God and Father of all.

 

[Yes]

Yes, I totally agree with you. Finally, eh? Yahweh is the one true God and Father of all.

Now, go reread your opening post. In addition, reread my post #4

 

[Faybull]

In the first part of the post, Gabriel is to say the same, no?

 

[Brickjectivity]

What I would do is go back to the beginning of chapter 7, and I would think about what chapter 9 would mean to someone living back in the day it was written long before Jesus, long before us. It was a time when warfare was all around and invasions were not merely possible but regular and expected. Israel, fearing invasions, has given up on its principles and appointed kings to lead them instead of letting the LORD be in charge, so Israel exists an a grey area. Its 'Trusting in chariots and horses' instead of 'Waiting upon the LORD'. This provides some context for chapter 7 of Isaiah.

Going back to chapter 7 Isaiah is talking to Ahaz king of Judah about two other kings, the king of Aram and the king of Samaria who have allied themselves against him. Isaiah speaks to Ahaz with the understanding that kings were never the ideal for Israel and are a form of idolatry, but the king of Judah (Northern Israel) is considered better than the king of Samarian Israel (or Southern Israel) by Isaiah and better than the king of Aram. Isaiah is trying to talk some sense into Ahaz. The king of Samaria has allied himself with Aram hoping to invade Judah, but Isaiah goes to meet Ahaz and to cheer him up and advises him that he will not be invaded by those two kings. Ahaz exhibits false humility, so he is rebuked. He says "No, I won't test the LORD" which is an ironic thing for a king to say. (Its possible that what happens here is Ahaz rejects the LORD, because he wants to continue being the king, but for whatever reason the LORD is not pleased with Ahaz response.) Instead of a sign of victory, Isaiah says, he will be given the sign of a son whose name is "Swift to the pillage, swift runs the prey" and instead of those two piddly kings of Samaria and of Aram, the LORD will bring the powerful king of Assyria against Ahaz instead.

Isaiah's Sons
In chapter 8 as a sign for Ahaz Isaiah sleeps with 'The prophetess' to make her conceive this son. "Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the LORD said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz." *NIV Isaiah 8:3* (Signs like these are to show that the prophet is serious about what he's saying, and I expect it was a big deal for a prophet and prophetess to sleep together though I don't know why.) Likely the prophetess was barren or quite old, making the birth a miracle. Whatever the reason, Isaiah sleeps with the prophetess in the presence of two witnesses, so that there can be no question. Then Isaiah says in verse 18 "Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion." *NIV Isaiah 8:13*

Finally we return to Isaiah 9:1-6 which tells of another of Isaiah's sons, and this son will benefit not Judah but the Israelites who live across the Jordan in Galilee. Ahaz will fall. The people of Judah will be humbled, destroyed, harmed by the king of Assyria; but there is going to be light for those who were previously troubled and who live in distress across the Jordan. This will be the last thing that Ahaz knows before his troubled life comes to an end, but it is very likely a sign specifically for him to cause him to change his attitude. The country that he thought he could rule and protect will be trampled, but the people that he discounted as lost will become enlightened.

Out of all this comes the Matthew 4 allusion to Isaiah 9. It is an allusion, not a quote. Matthew was written long before anyone added chapter and verse to Isaiah. His short quip was not a complete quote but a pointer to help us find appropriate material in Isaiah. As an exact quote Matthew's comment doesn't work, but looking at the context and the chapters 7,8,9 and 10 of Isaiah we get the gist of what Matthew is trying to say.

 

[moorea944]

Now, go reread your opening post. In addition, reread my post #4

Now, go reread my opening post #1.

 

[Yes]

Now, go reread my opening post #1.

Your opening post sounded good, but then you contradicted it when you deny that Jesus is that One and only Father.

 

[moorea944]

Your opening post sounded good, but then you contradicted it when you deny that Jesus is that One and only Father.

Nothing was contradicted. Why would I say that Jesus is the One and only Father? Yahweh is. Jesus is the Son. Yahweh is the Father.

 

[moorea944]

And I just want to add this.

We have to remember that God reveals Himself "through" Jesus Christ. He is not Yahweh.

2 Cor 5 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."


This states that God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. It does not say that God "was" Christ, simply that He was in Christ. The Heavenly Father acted "through" Jesus in a similar sense to how He acted through angels.

John 14v10 When Jesus explains to Philip his statement that if you have seen him (Jesus) then you have seen the Father, he asks Philip. "Dont you believe that I am "in" the Father and the Father is in me? Jesus does not ask Philip to believe that Jesus "was' the Father, simply that the Father was "in" him.. just like the Father was "in" the angels. The Creator revealed Himself and manifested Himself through the angels and through His son Jesus. Jesus represented his Father and reflected His Father's principles and righteousness in what he thought and said and did.

John 10v30 Jesus states here that he and the Father are "one". However, we should ask "in what sense" are Jesus and Yahweh "one". Jesus explains this clearly in his prayer to his Father just before entering the Garden of Gethsemane as recorded in John 17, as we have reviewed briefly. Christ's prayer for the faithful down through the ages was to enjoy the exact same oneness he and his Father enjoyed. This underlines the understanding that the oneness Jesus experienced with his Heavenly Father was one of purpose, not nature. This expression of the oneness Jesus and God experienced further cements the principle of the Creator manifesting Himself "through" His son Jesus. The 'flesh' (humanity) of Jesus seved as the conduit for displaying divine rightesous based on Christ's words, deeds and thoughts.

 

[Yes]

Nothing was contradicted. Why would I say that Jesus is the One and only Father? Yahweh is. Jesus is the Son. Yahweh is the Father.

You spoke yourself about Jesus being the Father. Since there is only one Father, Jesus is that Father.

 

[Yes]

And I just want to add this.

We have to remember that God reveals Himself "through" Jesus Christ. He is not Yahweh.

God made Himself flesh.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

You want to speak about 'through'? How about the fact that the scriptures say God made the world THROUGH JESUS THROUGH GOD.

1 Corinthians 8:6 ...Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

That was about Jesus.

This is about God---

Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

2 Cor 5 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This states that God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. It does not say that God "was" Christ, simply that He was in Christ. The Heavenly Father acted "through" Jesus in a similar sense to how He acted through angels.

The scriptures say Jesus is the Spirit.
What do you think Christ means?

Jesus is a life giving Spirit, see 1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Did you read that scripture? That scripture says Jesus is a SPIRIT.


This scripture says the Spirit gives life; see 2 Corinthians 3:6. Jesus gives life! John 5:21.


Read this scripture:

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

That scripture SAYS the Lord is the Spirit.

Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Isaiah 9v6 is a verse that is taken out of context many times. ... Why would Jesus be called Almighty God and Father. Well, ...

Now ^that's funny!

 

[moorea944]

You spoke yourself about Jesus being the Father. Since there is only one Father, Jesus is that Father.

But your making him "the" Father. And we cant do that, there is only one Yahweh.

 

[Yes]

But your making him "the" Father. And we cant do that, there is only one Yahweh.

But there is only One Father. If Jesus is the Father, as you have so well shown, then Jesus is also "the" Father, because there is only One Father.

 

[moorea944]

But there is only One Father. If Jesus is the Father, as you have so well shown, then Jesus is also "the" Father, because there is only One Father.

Actually, I havent. Jesus is not "the" Father which I have shown. I dont really understand why your making Jesus God. I dont understand why anyone would even want to do that.

 

[Yes]

Actually, I havent. Jesus is not "the" Father which I have shown. I dont really understand why your making Jesus God. I dont understand why anyone would even want to do that.

Jesus is the Father. We have to go through Jesus. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

Answer these questions. Remember, you said Jesus is not God, so then, you must then teach that God and Jesus are not interchangeable. So then, make sure you only give one person for each answer.

Who will we bow to, God or Jesus?


Who is the light, God or Jesus?


Through who was everything made, through God or Jesus?

Who is the First and the Last, God or Jesus?


Is God our Savior, or is Jesus our Savior?


Who is our Redeemer, God or Jesus?



Who is the Shepherd, God or Jesus?



Who is our Husband, God or Jesus?

Who is our Rock, God or Jesus?



Whose commands are they, God's, or Jesus'?


Who sends the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?


Who pours out the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?