Is Zen Nature based

[Riders]

I'm sure many will say no, however I'm in the UU church have the freedom to express myself as I want.
But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

To me nature is all powerful so.Many Pagans do practice Zen anyways including when they use to have a Zen sitting at my UU church which is a Pagan church. So the question is is Zen natured based or Pagan?

 

[Papoon]

Zen is nature. Path and goal are nature. Path as goal is nature.
I am nature, any object of meditation is nature.
Non-meditation is nature.
That's that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm sure many will say no, however I'm in the UU church have the freedom to express myself as I want.
But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

To me nature is all powerful so.Many Pagans do practice Zen anyways including when they use to have a Zen sitting at my UU church which is a Pagan church. So the question is is Zen natured based or Pagan?

The only time Zen becomes a conflict with Paganism is if you are practicing Zen within the cultural context and Dharma it teaches. If you are practicing Zazen and using Zen concepts to balance yourself with nature, I personally see no problem with that.

Its like any Christian can pray in a Catholic Parish. Its a Christian Church (context). However, that same Christian cannot take the Eucharist because that particular sacrament among many are part of the Church culture and dogma. So, comparing it to Zen and Zazen. Anyone can practice Zazen (or pray in comparison) but not everyone can practice Zen as a Path or Dharma if one is excluding all the cultural and Dharmic teachings that somewhat conflict with pagan concepts.

In other words, I think you are practicing Zazen. Zen, as in following the Dharma from Mahayana interpretation, I see some conflictions with what I genuienly know about paganism.

As a UU (and part of the tenant) I wouldnt be hold up on whether its right to practice Zazen and paganism. As a Buddhist as well, Id say there may be some head turns but from a Zazen perspective and a former Zen practitioner, I see no issue with it morally.

Hope that helps?

 

[crossfire]

Zen is Buddhism. This might be where many equate Zen with nature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathātā

 

[Aiviu]

I always thought zen would be something like a clarity of mind where i sense myself in what i did and what i see.

Sorry: Thats it DIR. Umm... sorry. just was interested.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

That sense of connection and oneness can certainly be a result of meditation, and many Pagans meditate. I think Pagans take it a step further, there is a deep reverence for nature.

There are many different kinds of meditation of course.

 

[Kartari]

Hi Riders,

I'm sure many will say no, however I'm in the UU church have the freedom to express myself as I want.
But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

To me nature is all powerful so.Many Pagans do practice Zen anyways including when they use to have a Zen sitting at my UU church which is a Pagan church. So the question is is Zen natured based or Pagan?

First, good to see a familiar face (from Bnet).

As to your post, it can certainly be said that the dhamma is natural within the Chan/Zen traditions of Buddhism. After the arrival of Buddhism in China in the 1st century CE, Buddhists looked to the native Chinese religion of Daoism and its terminology, like ziran ("naturalness"), to communicate their teachings. While attempts to match meanings more precisely began a few centuries later, the influence of Daoism in Chinese and later Japanese forms of Buddhism stuck, including Chan and Zen.

 

[Riders]

Thankyou Kartari nice to see you!

 

[Jeff Strehlow]

I'm sure many will say no, however I'm in the UU church have the freedom to express myself as I want.
But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

To me nature is all powerful so.Many Pagans do practice Zen anyways including when they use to have a Zen sitting at my UU church which is a Pagan church. So the question is is Zen natured based or Pagan?

In a sense, Zen helps me get in touch with nature. By nature I mean everything--the entire world. It helps me experience sight, smell, sound, taste and touch in a more pure way. By pure I mean just: seeing, smelling, hearing, tasting and touching and not confusing these senses with my ideas about things.

 

[ajay0]

I'm sure many will say no, however I'm in the UU church have the freedom to express myself as I want.
But I reason I ask is when I practice Zen come into awareness of being here and now hearing literal sounds around me while I'm meditation, I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

To me nature is all powerful so.Many Pagans do practice Zen anyways including when they use to have a Zen sitting at my UU church which is a Pagan church. So the question is is Zen natured based or Pagan?

See the basic religious teachings of mindfulness or love permeates almost all religions or spiritual traditions, including the pagan.

Zen is there in christianity as well, when Jesus talks about the lilies who live in the present.

But that does not mean that zen is christian based !

Practice of zen or present moment awareness brings one in touch with nature better, because the incessantly thinking mind is not there to obstruct reality as it is by imposing its ideas or indulging in thoughts of past and future.

In no-mind or absence of thoughts, one sees reality as it is , and hence appreciates nature better and its sweetness. This is all there is to it.

 

[psychoslice]

Zen is something that we don't worship or follow, it is who we are, its our Source of Consciousness, you cannot make a belief system out of it, because its always beyond any system, Zen is .....................................................................

 

[godnotgod]

"The spirituality found in Zen is not to think about God while peeling the potatoes, but simply to peel the potatoes."
Alan Watts
*****

THE SHADOW OF THE BAMBOO
SWEEPS THE STAIR
ALL NIGHT LONG
YET NOT A MOTE OF DUST IS STIRRED.

THE MOONBEAMS PENETRATE
TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POOL
YET IN THE WATER
NOT A TRACE IS LEFT.
Unknown source
*****
frogpondleapsplash
godnotgod
*****

 

[godnotgod]

I have a sense of becoming at one with nature.

Zen is not the experience of the observer and the observed in a subject/object split. Zen is the realization you are none other than That; that 'the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation is a single Reality'.

 

[Riders]

Thankyou that's good.

 

[Willamena]

Nature is not the base of Zen, truth is.

 

[godnotgod]

Nature is not the base of Zen, truth is.

The moment you conceptualize something you call 'truth', you have created a duality: truth vs not-truth. Zen is non-dual. It is simply a reflection of the One Reality. Nature is the One Reality. Zen is not concerned with 'truth', but with not forming opinions.

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.”
Seng-ts’an, Third Zen Patriarch

Western knowledge is about the accumulation of facts and data which lead to what we call knowledge and truth. But Zen's way is to subtract and subtract again, until we reach a state of 'no-mind', which is not concerned with facts and data about which we then conceptualize ideas such as 'truth', but with simply seeing things as they actually are. IOW, Zen short-circuits the thinking mind and cuts to the heart of the matter.

The reason nature is a paradox is because, as Osho tells us, 'nature is bigger than Reason'. Nature cannot be encapsulated into a finite conceptual framework.

 

[crossfire]

The moment you conceptualize something you call 'truth', you have created a duality: truth vs not-truth. Zen is non-dual. It is simply a reflection of the One Reality. Nature is the One Reality. Zen is not concerned with 'truth', but with not forming opinions.

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.”
Seng-ts’an, Third Zen Patriarch

Western knowledge is about the accumulation of facts and data which lead to what we call knowledge and truth. But Zen's way is to subtract and subtract again, until we reach a state of 'no-mind', which is not concerned with facts and data about which we then conceptualize ideas such as 'truth', but with simply seeing things as they actually are. IOW, Zen short-circuits the thinking mind and cuts to the heart of the matter.

The reason nature is a paradox is because, as Osho tells us, 'nature is bigger than Reason'. Nature cannot be encapsulated into a finite conceptual framework.

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.”
Seng-ts’an, Third Zen Patriarch​

Indeed, the first words from that very document, the Xinxin Ming (or Hsin Hsin Ming) read thusly:

It is not hard to realize your Mind
Which should not be an object of your choice.
Throw like and dislike away
And you'll be clear about it.
The slightest deviation from it means
A gulf as deep as that 'twixt heaven and earth.
If you want it to manifest
Be not for or against a thing,
For that is contentious,
A disease of the mind.​

The nonduality spoken of here is throwing away the duality of like and dislike.

When you favor one position and disfavor another, you tend to notice what you like and repress what you dislike, which distorts your perception of reality. Your like and dislike creates this illusion {distorted view} of duality.

This puts the illusion of duality firmly in the subjective realm, not in the objective realm.

Do not seek the true,
Only abstain from views.
Do not dwell in dual views,
Be careful not to pursue them.
​

Again, reference to the subjective realm of views--specifically dual views--like and dislike.

Although all dualities come from the One,
do not be attached even to this One​

Becoming attached to "oneness" is actually a "like-dislike" duality. You have to drop the notion of objective oneness because this will lead to the like-dislike illusion of duality all over again--the disease of mind described in the opening verses. Insisting on objective nondualism certainly qualifies as such.

 

[Willamena]

The moment you conceptualize something you call 'truth', you have created a duality: truth vs not-truth. Zen is non-dual. It is simply a reflection of the One Reality. Nature is the One Reality. Zen is not concerned with 'truth', but with not forming opinions.

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.”
Seng-ts’an, Third Zen Patriarch

Western knowledge is about the accumulation of facts and data which lead to what we call knowledge and truth. But Zen's way is to subtract and subtract again, until we reach a state of 'no-mind', which is not concerned with facts and data about which we then conceptualize ideas such as 'truth', but with simply seeing things as they actually are. IOW, Zen short-circuits the thinking mind and cuts to the heart of the matter.

The reason nature is a paradox is because, as Osho tells us, 'nature is bigger than Reason'. Nature cannot be encapsulated into a finite conceptual framework.

Truth is not objectivity.

 

[godnotgod]

When you favor one position and disfavor another, you tend to notice what you like and repress what you dislike, which distorts your perception of reality. Your like and dislike creates this illusion {distorted view} of duality.​

This puts the illusion of duality firmly in the subjective realm, not in the objective realm.

This is especially true in how we see ourselves and how others see us. This is, in Jungian terms, called Persona and Shadow. Persona is how we want others to see us, the ideal image of ourselves (like), while Shadow is a collection of negative images we hide in our subconscious mind (dislike). The big problem is that we then project the Shadow onto others to dehumanize and demonize, the classic example being the foisting of the German national Shadow of untermenschen (ie sub-human), onto the Jews, rendering them expendable, rationalizing their extermination as 'defective'. But on a daily basis all around the world, Shadow is being foisted on one another all the time in all spheres of existence, having especially taken root in the young with our current problem of bullying. It's an epidemic.

 

[godnotgod]

Truth is not objectivity.

What is tt?