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Is Western livestyle a "Tantric heaven" having come true?

Discussion in 'Dharmic Religions DIR' started by Sirona, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Sirona

    Sirona Hindu Wannabe

    May 1, 2014
    Namaste and hello, I am reading a book entitled Kali Kaula - A Manual of Tantric Magick about the history and practice of Tantra mostly in the Hindu context but there are references to Buddhism too. The author’s name is Jan Fries and he is German so I guess he’s a convert. There’s a statement in his book that for left-hand practicioners, the 5 M’s are taken literally. As you may know, these are madya (alcohol), mamsa (meat), matsya (fish), mudra (gesture/parched grain), and maithuna (intercourse), who are to be avoided by orthodox Hindus AFAIK. But the thing is, the author writes from a Western (German) cultural perspective. I’d say for the vast majority of Westerners, eating fish, meat and grain and especially drinking alcohol are normal. Maithuna is a tricky one, but marriage rates are dropping, people nowadays prefer to live together without being married or sometimes just have one-night stands, which is made easier by the availability of contraceptives. I also followed the discussions of atheists (mostly former Christians) on this board. Quite a few of them seem to insist that there is just one life and that therefore one should enjoy it to the maximum. I wondered how similar this attitude is to the Tantric Buddhist concept that everything is void and that one should therefore enjoy the moment. Before Hinduism, I was interested in Diamondway Buddhism (Ole Nydahl) who seemed to promote this view. I wondered how far to the East a Western practicioner actually has to go, or whether he possibly is already there. To what extent is Western civilisation at a large scale close to a “Tantric heaven” having come true? Where do you see major differences?
    #1 Sirona, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  2. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

    Sep 28, 2011
    Perhaps one should enjoy the moment, but before that moment, one should maybe consider what the consequences might be if one decides to "go ahead" with the intended moment?
    • Like Like x 1
  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Apr 20, 2014
    I suppose in a lot of ways the “Western lifestyle” is rather freer. Culturally speaking there is still a bit of a taboo regarding casual sex in many places. But that does seem to be less prevalent among the youth.
    Ironically one could point to earlier periods of history and find a much more hedonistic existence. The Libertine movement of the 16 -1700s for instance.
    There are of course pockets of the faithful who refuse to partake in such “hedonism” to varying degrees.

    But I suppose there does seem more of a revelry in general compared to spiritual practices among the West. A sort of watered down experience for some
  4. Meerkat

    Meerkat Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2017
    Not sure
    I think tantra is an attitude of mind, and little to do with lifestyle choices.
    Not something to be found in books, you really need a teacher.
    #4 Meerkat, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    May 5, 2007
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    In true Hindu tantra practice, the 5Ms are used symbolically to get away from attachments, and not as indulgence.
    As you know I am a strong atheist Hindu. I too do not believe in any 'next life'. But that is not a license for doing whatever one wants.
    There is no problem about enjoying life, but it must be done within the bounds of one's 'dharma'. The goal is to safe-guard the society.
    No one, under any circumstances, is supposed to cross the boundaries of their 'dharma'. That is the Hindu perspective.
    What a German, convert or Christian (or even a Hindu), writes or does is immaterial.