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Is this worse than racism?

rocala

Well-Known Member
I was interested in the thread by @Debater Slayer, about finding out a friend is a racist. A similar question came to my mind. What would you do if you found out a friend was violent towards women?

It happened to me, and to make it worse, it was my best friend, a man I had known for around 30 years and thought I knew inside out. It was the biggest shock of my life. I am sorry to say that I did not handle the situation well.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I once was on a date with a guy who was both tragic and repulsive

Within two minutes he let on that he'd punched his sister, that alone would have ended any chance he had with me (but he had none anyway)

But I'd gone all the way to Manchester to meet him so stayed for the duration and out of some dark morbid curiosity

The whole episode was really depressing the dude smoked something like 90 cigs a day he could barely breath, could probably have done with an oxygen tank

That was in 2022 he is most likely dead now

He fell over when we were in a fast food shop, thought he'd need an ambulance

Am never going to meet anyone :(

But to relate this response to the OP, this guy lost any chance he had of being any friend of mine the moment he let slip that he'd hit his sister
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
Within two minutes he let on that he'd punched his sister
In this case, it was his sister too. She was widowed, had two young children and was suffering from a serious illness. When he lost his home due to mortgage arrears, he moved in with her, allegedly to care for her. She told me what was happening and a later chat with their lodger confirmed it.

I really did not know what to do, I worried that it might make things worse for her. One day we bumped into each other in a local pub. He was in a very strange mood and quite quickly started an argument with me over some imagined slight. He obviously was unaware of the tension that had been building up in me and to put it simply, I lost my temper big time. He got hurt, I was barred from the pub, but I was very lucky that the police were not involved.

A few days later I saw the lodger again. He told me that my ex-friend was no longer around. Some of his late brother in law's friends had found out what was happening and sent him a message. Quite sensibly he moved away from London.
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
From having been on the receiving end of male on female abuse -- don't cut and run on the friendship! Two reasons, both from my personal experience.
1. If you take a strong "man you're worthless" stance you're feeding his need to prove his power and self-proclaimed worth. He'll find more reasons to show that "manliness" to her.
2. Stick it out and use a calm influence more to the order of "Man, you don't need to be doing that. She's good to you, right? If not, you need to cut her loose and find one who is. You need a good woman. One you don't need to correct." You may be able to influence his voluntary leaving which will save her. THEN take the strong stance if you need to. Once he's moved on and she's safe.

Being within the family makes it much tougher....
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I am not a one issue, friendship kill-switch, type of person. In my experience, people are complicated and most have more than one trick. If you have a true friend, you should know about other things, that can balance the scale. If a person was a one trick pony, and ignores the rest of their humanity, and 24/7 fixates on some form of being abusive, then I would downgrade them to a casual acquaintance, if they are fair to me. Where I live, is a Liberal stronghold, so being for Trump will get you attacked, even by friends. It becomes a lively debate, sometimes with yelling, and then other aspects of each other take over and the friends laugh and remain. This is how old fashion free speech works.

I have had a few girlfriends, over the years, who were real witches; abusive female. One, in particular, started out fine but as we got closer she got worse. She could get mean and very abusive. I learned to confide sensitive details of my life, to build intimacy and she will turn it against me. I was taught never to hit a girl, but spanking a witch was not out of the question. If she got physical, I would limited myself to a modified grappling style, where I could subdue her; wrap her up and then give her a few butt smacks. She eventually confessed that she thought I needed to express my anger, since I was always calm and rational, so she was purposely pushing my buttons until I got angry enough to act. But once she said she enjoyed the game and the spanking, I stopped. I learned to stay calm and she would vent to the wind.

In my experience, some women want all the benefits of men but none of the liability. If two men were to be verbally insulting and then push each other, it may escalate into a fight. If women escalate the abuse to that stage, they expect to be treated as women; free ride. This is where grappling and arm bars are good; hurts but leaves no marks on their pretty face or body. Most will say uncle and then get soft. Being treated like men has a down side if you pick fights.

I had another brief girlfriend, who said she had lost a daughter in a car accident. Her anger and grief ended her first marriage. When we met she was an artist, numbing herself with drugs, but was trying to get off the stronger pain killers. I helped her deal with her issues for several months and she was getting stable.

Out of the blue she was contacted by her former dealer man, who was trying to get his good paying customer back; she had money from divorcing her well off husband. The next day, I went to her apartment, as usual. But this day she was paranoid of her dealer visiting her. She seems to have the monkey on her back; get a fix or not. She was patrolling her apartment with a loaded shotgun she bought on the black market. She was not supposed to have guns, due to her previous anger issues.

As she patrolled and ranted, she was waiving the loaded gun around, often pointing it in my direction. I could picture the shot gun going off and altering my life, or worse. So I got up from where I was sitting, and I talked calmly, as I approach her, to get control of her gun. I wanted to aim it away from both of us, while she held it. She suddenly acted like I was now the enemy, trying to get her gun or worse.

The thought that came to my mind, was the dealer had planted paranoia in her head; mind games he played on her. As we struggled, then "boom!, the shot gun went off and vaporized an 8 in hole in the carpet, just inches from both our bare feet. We could have both lost a foot. It was thunder storming and the sound of the shotgun boom in her apartment, did not get any neighbor notice. After the boom, we both snapped out of her paranoia and struggle, and she agreed to take my advice and put the gun away in her room.

After that, we were both calm and friendly as we talked on the sofa, until we heard a noise. Then this large man enters the apartment, through the unlocked patio slider. He was wet from the continuing rainstorm. This was her dealer. I was thinking, she finally listens to me, now we have no gun. So I got up into a semi defensive stand/ handshake greeting. But he says, I have nothing against you, I just need to talk to her in private, so I left. I was expecting to hear more gun fire. I was glad to get out of the apartment still in one piece.

The next day, I went back to she how she was, and I notice the vaporized hole was gone. The dealer man fixed it like a pro and had left. He used carpet from a closet. There was a cutout there. A few days later she moved out, with him. I Never saw her since.

There are some women who are not defenseless damsels. It is good to keep options open. Early in our relationship, she had told me she had been a linguistics specialist translating transcripts for the CIA. This was before her daughter died. She could speak and read five languages and knew many dialects of each language. Her "dealer friend" who kept her medicated, also worked for the CIA. She told me they had taken care of the drug dealer, who had given her daughter the drugs, that caused her to die in her auto crash. Who knows the truth, but this was afterthe writing of my MDT theory. I thought I would share that story. I was a huge rebel back then. I am mellow now.
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
I would like to add a few comments to the story. When such nastiness rears its ugly head it can make you see the recent past in a new and very disturbing way.

A mutual friend once confided to me that he was rather disturbed by the way our friend often made jokes when seeing TV reports of sex crimes or the murder of women. I dismissed it as bad-taste comments. Our friend was a committed anti-racist and defender of the underdog. Surely this did not mean anything?

After ending a relationship with him, a girlfriend committed suicide. When I next saw him he mentioned that he had visited her grave and visited her relatives. His next comment was that her brother had said "I don't think it was anything to do with you." At the time I was a little puzzled by his tone of emphasis and big smile. I am less puzzled now.

An interesting thing about this was that he never told me,or anyone that I knew of, that the relationship was over, only she did. In fact I dated her several times. She begged me not to tell him and I could not understand her worries. We were not doing anything wrong. He by the way had cheated on her throughout the whole of their relationship.

As far as the rest of the world was concerned, the woman that he was engaged with to marry, killed herself during a sudden state of depression, leaving him behind and heart-broken. A complete fiction created by a man who would go on to regularly beat up his ailing sister.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
My first concern would be protecting any women this person was in association with and offer the women advice on how to sever any ties with this person, and then suggest professional counseling to the friend to determine the cause of the violence.

Should the friend be receptive to counseling and actively seek help to resolve the violence, I'd help them through that, because, in the long run, whether or not they would remain a friend would be secondary to preventing further violence toward women.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder if anyone here who has just written such a person off a despicable has considered why the person is violent toward women or considered the future harm such a person could do without an intervention of some sort.

There is certainly a possibility that the person who is violent toward women grew up in a household where they and their mother were physically abused by their father and were conditioned to believe that such behavior is the status quo, especially a young adult just getting out of such a situation themselves.

In your opinion, is it acceptable to just condemn such a person and move on with your own life?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I was interested in the thread by @Debater Slayer, about finding out a friend is a racist. A similar question came to my mind. What would you do if you found out a friend was violent towards women?

It happened to me, and to make it worse, it was my best friend, a man I had known for around 30 years and thought I knew inside out. It was the biggest shock of my life. I am sorry to say that I did not handle the situation well.
I am, quite naturally not a fan of violence
toward women.
But " racism" can come in very mild and harmless
forms as can the use of force.
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
I am, quite naturally not a fan of violence
toward women.
But " racism" can come in very mild and harmless
forms as can the use of force.
Their sheer nastiness and irrationality make them bed-fellows of a kind but beyond that, there are huge differences.

No misogynist would dream of, far less plan, administration, military forces, and camps for the extermination of women. Equally, I cannot imagine any racist pursuing, marrying and declaring his undying love for victims of his spite.

They are both sicknesses of society but are different and are perceived differently. Look at "What's new". At the time of my typing this, If your friend turns out to be a racist has over seventy replies. If your friend is beating women has eleven.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder if anyone here who has just written such a person off a despicable has considered why the person is violent toward women or considered the future harm such a person could do without an intervention of some sort.

There is certainly a possibility that the person who is violent toward women grew up in a household where they and their mother were physically abused by their father and were conditioned to believe that such behavior is the status quo, especially a young adult just getting out of such a situation themselves.

In your opinion, is it acceptable to just condemn such a person and move on with your own life?
I grew up with a man who used to beat my mother. He beat his first wife before she died. I haven't written him off as he stopped after his marriage to my mother but he did sexually abuse me. I don't actually feel any hatred towards him as feelings are complex when it's family. I have just moved on. He could have had an intervention of some kind but his behaviours remained despicable. He was beaten as punishment as a child but so were his sisters and they seemed normal, not heard of any issues. I don't know what went on with him.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I grew up with a man who used to beat my mother. He beat his first wife before she died. I haven't written him off as he stopped after his marriage to my mother but he did sexually abuse me. I don't actually feel any hatred towards him as feelings are complex when it's family. I have just moved on. He could have had an intervention of some kind but his behaviours remained despicable. He was beaten as punishment as a child but so were his sisters and they seemed normal, not heard of any issues. I don't know what went on with him.
I'm sorry you and your mother had to go through this.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I was interested in the thread by @Debater Slayer, about finding out a friend is a racist. A similar question came to my mind. What would you do if you found out a friend was violent towards women?

It happened to me, and to make it worse, it was my best friend, a man I had known for around 30 years and thought I knew inside out. It was the biggest shock of my life. I am sorry to say that I did not handle the situation well.
They would no longer be any friend of mine and I would call the police about it if I knew they were beating someone. But unless the victim actually wants to do something about it, outsiders are totally powerless, as has been my experience.

I've also been beaten by an ex, myself. It takes a lot to get out of an abusive relationship, especially when you think you deserve it and it's better than being alone.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In your opinion, is it acceptable to just condemn such a person and move on with your own life?
Yes, they have no excuse as we all have a choice as to what kind of person we want to be. I grew up in a very violent, impoverished and neglectful environment and was beaten badly and otherwise abused as a child by my dad, his family and some of my other family. They're basically abusive sociopaths. My dad was a violent sociopath and so were his parents. My first memory is of my dad's dad shooting at my mom and I in a drunken rage when I was a baby. I was constantly terrified. Her grandfather was also a violent drunk, and my mom's other immediate family were also abusive lunatics and into shady stuff.

However, I did not turn out like that and the same for so many others who grew up in horrible conditions. My mother wasn't like her crazy family, either. What happens with the people who keep the cycle going is they're allowing themselves to be consumed by their own internal rage and it can get worse and worse until they are themselves monsters. But it all starts with choice. I could've let my rage consume me, too, but I didn't want to be like that. I chose to work on myself and heal.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don't understand the value of "worse than" in this thread.
Yeah. Myself, I come from a broken family so I often wonder if it's worse knowing your dad is a piece of **** or not knowing him at all, but I can clearly see that's only a personal curiosity as either one has turned mamy kids into broken adults. It doesn't matter which is worse or if one is worse than the other.
Racism and misogyny? They're bith pretty bad. I've been through one, not the other, but we can clearly see the destruction of both.
 
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