Is this protecting children or just silliness!

[kateyes]

This is from an article on CNN.COM today:

The rule there, and at a growing number of America's schools, is that parties and play-dates shouldn't be discussed unless every child in the room is invited.
Gone are the days when a kindergartner dropped a handful of party invites in the classroom cubbyholes of their closest buddies. Today, if anyone is excluded the invitations can't be handed out at school.............
Take Valentine's Day: At some schools, a second-grader can't offer paper valentines or heart-shaped candies to a short list of pals and secret crushes anymore. They give cards to everyone or no one at all.....................Or sports: In many towns, scorekeeping no longer happens at soccer or softball games played by kids under 8 or 9. Win or lose, every player in the league gets a trophy at the season's end.

Is this a good idea--the concept being that by not excluding anyone--no-one ends up with hurt feelings or low self-esteem. Or does it actually end up creating a sense of entitlement--no matter how well I did nor didn't do the job I still get a prize?

This goes along a bit with a story I read about several months back, that had to do with eliminating assigning grades in schools. Are we doing our children any favors by not preparing them for the real world?

 

[ladyhawke]

Its NOT a good idea,rejection comes in many forms in the real world,that job you wanted,the guy who fancied your best friend,school is where you learn the very basic forms of rejection and hopefully develop coping skills,this kind of thing imo does more damage to a childs way of handling things than anything else.If someone doesn't want you at their party its tough but kids do learn that they are not top of the tree this way, its a very simplistic form of learning you cant always have what you what.

 

[evearael]

I thought I was overprotective! This is nonsense. If a child cannot handle small doses of rejection early in life, how on earth do they learn to cope so they can handle the large doses of adolescence and adulthood? A child should learn to enjoy the games and do the best they can. They should learn to be a good winner and loser. There could be a good reason your child is excluded from a party: the other parents may be too poor to invite everyone or maybe they just don't get along with the other child.

 

[Ryan2065]

Heh, people are too overprotective today...

Here is a link to the full article
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/08/08/parenting.protecting.ap/index.html

 

[Faint]

It seems more practical to just seal kids in bubble wrap and send them into the world. Just another example of the wussification of America's youth.

 

[Ryan2065]

I sent this article to my girlfriend and she replied with this link.. its quite interesting

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20041112-000010.html

Basically talks about the effects of being over protective =)

Im only on page 3 so far (of 8) but it is really interesting!

 

[Booko]

This is from an article on CNN.COM today:

This isn't far off the same rules we had in elementary school back in the early 60s.

Oh, we could "discuss" birthday parties, or anything else, on the playground, because the teachers weren't within earshot most of the time.

Do it at any other time, and you'd be sent to the office.

re: Grades -- yup, we should keep them. If we don't, then there is less incentive for some to bother to improve, and no warning for others that they aren't getting the material and need some help.

 

[Ðanisty]

When I was in elementary school, you gave valentine's cards to every person in your class. I don't think that's anything new. However, when exactly are you supposed to invite your friends to a party if you can't give them the invitation at school? Why would anyone invite their whole class to a party? A party isn't about equality or being nice to everyone. You get to decide who is there...it's not even a school event. I can't imagine being told I had to invite people I didn't like to my birthday party...

About the grades, what exactly would that do for anyone? You're going to get evaluated when you go out into the real world and get a job anyway.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Children Know better than any one else who their friends are.
nor do they invite children their parents do not wish to be at the party.
This is state interference in family life.

 

[Circle_One]

I'm on the fence for this.

I think it's ridiculous to eliminate score keeping for younger kids.

However, I do think the birthday invitation and valentine's card things are a good idea.

For those of you who are against it, imagine it was your kid coming home from school crying because THEY were the ones who didn't get invited to ANY party, while everyone else did, or the majority of the other kids did, or having to listen to all their classmates discussing a birthday party on the weekend in which they all had so much fun, but your kid wasn't invited to. Or imagine it was your kids who come home from school on Valentines or Christmas with NO cards, while every other kid got one. Wouldn't it hurt you to see them hurt?

Kids can be cruel, you know that. So you must know that in every class, there's at least one kid that's ostricized from the rest of the class. How do you think that kid feels when he or she is never invited to any party or never receives any Valentines cards? How do you think the parents feel when their kid comes home depressed because of this? Not fun, right?

Do you honestly think that THAT is good for the child?

I can't imagine how that could possibly help the child. I think it's disgusting.

When I was growing up, I made sure, when I had a birthday party, to invite every kid in my class, so no one would feel left out. Because I could imagine how much it must have hurt to be the only one left out.

But that's just the way I was brought up.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

We gave Valentines to every kid in class, too, so that's nothing new. Our kids do that, and I don't see a problem with it.



Send birthday party invitations through the mail. You get a faster RSVP, and kids love receiving things in the mail, anyway. You also avoid unintentionally hurting another kids' feelings if you forget to invite them. I wish we had a house or the cash to celebrate with our kids' entire classrooms, but we just don't have the space or the money to.


I didn't read the article, so I can't comment about anything else except the score-keeping. I wonder if refraining from keeping score is part of teaching the kids a healthy sense of competition. At what age do sports organizations start score-keeping, then? What would they consider appropriate?



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Rejected]

I think this is on par with the rest of the asinine things we are putting our children through.

It seems to me that the parents are trying to vicariously experience that blissful, pain-free childhood they wished they had experienced through their children. It’s selfish and damaging to not just the children involved, but ultimately the parents as well.

When you raise your child to think that everyone likes them and in middle school or high school they find out brutally that this isn't true they break down. And while I think that the sports issue is ok up until a certain age, maybe 6 or 7, if it is allowed to continue then you're failing to offer any incentive for the child to excel. The message we're sending is "you don't heave to try hard; you'll still get the rewards." Nonsense.

Then when these children we've coddled and pampered and protected realize that it’s not a happy, fluffy, everyone-loves-me world they don't know how to cope. When they don't make the baseball team because they don’t have the talent (because they've never had to try) they get angry. When they don’t make the grades to get into college because they've never been held accountable, they give up and get bitter.

Then, you know what the parents do? They’ve watched their child grow up, knowing in secret that they don't have what it takes to make it, but they still don't want to hurt any feelings. So instead of trying to teach their children how to cope with failure, loss and rejection in a positive manner (better late than never) the children are medicated.

Prozac.
Zoloft.
Wellbutrin.
Celexa.
Effexor.
Lexapro.

"We’ll find the one that works best for you"

Take the pill and go back to happy land.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I played softball for eight years at shortstop. One of my coaches that I trained under for three of those years was one of the most fierce competitors. I remember that a common celebration practice when a softball team won a game, after lining up and slapping hands with the losing opponents while saying "good game" was to do this:



Gather around in a circle in a slight squat.
Hold our gloves between our knees.
Yell out, "2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate? The other TEAM (throw our gloves high up into the air)!!"



Coach Madden (yes, that was his name, he has sadly passed away) used to have us do this exact same ritual when we lost, too. He yelled at us if we didn't try our best on the field, if we didn't sprint out to our positions, and he yelled at us if we were bitter after losing. He instilled in us the healthiest sense of competition that I can remember. We were not to gloat over our victories, and we were not to cry in the face of defeat. He helped us keep our emotions in check and where they should be in regards to this in life: It's just a game.




I wonder what Coach Madden would say to the recent efforts of "protecting" our children from learning from losing. Mistakes and losing are some of the best ways to learn about teamwork, appreciation, and about sportsmanship.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Ðanisty]

For those of you who are against it, imagine it was your kid coming home from school crying because THEY were the ones who didn't get invited to ANY party, while everyone else did, or the majority of the other kids did, or having to listen to all their classmates discussing a birthday party on the weekend in which they all had so much fun, but your kid wasn't invited to. Or imagine it was your kids who come home from school on Valentines or Christmas with NO cards, while every other kid got one. Wouldn't it hurt you to see them hurt?

Kids can be cruel, you know that. So you must know that in every class, there's at least one kid that's ostricized from the rest of the class. How do you think that kid feels when he or she is never invited to any party or never receives any Valentines cards? How do you think the parents feel when their kid comes home depressed because of this? Not fun, right?

I was one of those kids and I'm still against it.

Do you honestly think that THAT is good for the child?

Yup....it's a whole lot better than letting them think they're always going to get along with everyone. It's better than letting them think that people are their friends (just because they got invited to a party) when they aren't.

 

[Circle_One]

We'll have to disagree here then Danisty, because I really don't think that allowing a young child between the ages of 5 and 9 to be ostracized in this way to be good for that child in the least. It's horrible for their self-esteem, their confidence, their self-worth.

It's certainly a lot easier to learn lessons like the ones you think this teaches children, at an older age.

I could never condone the treatment of a child in that way, no matter WHAT it may "teach" them.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I dunno, Blayze...for you to invite everyone because you sympathised with how it must feel to be left out was ok for you, because you WANTED to do it.
I can't imagine I would have had a barrel of laughs going to the party of a person who really didn't like me but was obliged to invite me just so the invitations could get handed out at school. I can't imagine being stuck at a party with a group of people who really didn't like you would be great for the self esteem of a child. Nor would being targetted in the playground by the very person who gave you the invitation and being told that the didn't want you at the party and they only gave you the invitation because they had to.
My daughter cried because she didn't win anything in the Easter Egg raffle at Kinder - as did a number of other children - should we abolish fundraising because some kids get upset when they have nothing to take home after raffles and pie drives? She's also been invited to one birthday party this year - out of maybe a dozen - and she was quite upset that she got sick and couldn't go. That she didn't get invited to the other 11 didn't bother her in the least.

 

[Circle_One]

I dunno, Blayze...for you to invite everyone because you sympathised with how it must feel to be left out was ok for you, because you WANTED to do it.
I can't imagine I would have had a barrel of laughs going to the party of a person who really didn't like me but was obliged to invite me just so the invitations could get handed out at school. I can't imagine being stuck at a party with a group of people who really didn't like you would be great for the self esteem of a child. Nor would being targetted in the playground by the very person who gave you the invitation and being told that the didn't want you at the party and they only gave you the invitation because they had to.

But see, I was never your typical child, I guess. I specifically tried to be friends with those that the other kids ostricized because I always thought it disgusting that kids could treat one another in that way. I invited everyone because I wanted everyone there. I wanted everyone there because I thought it unfair that some kids would get left out. I felt everyone should always feel included, because we were, afterall, just kids and didn't need to treat one another in such a horrid way.

My daughter cried because she didn't win anything in the Easter Egg raffle at Kinder - as did a number of other children - should we abolish fundraising because some kids get upset when they have nothing to take home after raffles and pie drives?

This is entirely different though. These kids didn't win through a pick of a name or number, or what have you. Children who come home after watching all their classmates receiving christmas or valentines cards don't get any not through sheer luck, but rather through the horridness of children. Why should any kid get left out when it comes to something like christmas or valentines day?

Having kids, you must know how kids are. One of the "popular" kids displays a dislike for another child and suddenly the entire class is against that one child. It's disgusting and I don't think any one kid should be left out of a celebration that is supposed to bring them joy simply because kids can be jerks.

Perhaps I can be swayed to understand your argument for the birthday party. I won't change my opinion of it, but I do see where you are coming from. However, I am steadfast, at least, in my opinion of the holiday cards. If you're going to give one to one kid, each kid should receive one. Such a happy occasion should not be made depressive for a young child. No matter what the reason.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

But see, I was never your typical child, I guess. I specifically tried to be friends with those that the other kids ostricized because I always thought it disgusting that kids could treat one another in that way. I invited everyone because I wanted everyone there. I wanted everyone there because I thought it unfair that some kids would get left out. I felt everyone should always feel included, because we were, afterall, just kids and didn't need to treat one another in such a horrid way.



This is entirely different though. These kids didn't win through a pick of a name or number, or what have you. Children who come home after watching all their classmates receiving christmas or valentines cards don't get any not through sheer luck, but rather through the horridness of children. Why should any kid get left out when it comes to something like christmas or valentines day?

Having kids, you must know how kids are. One of the "popular" kids displays a dislike for another child and suddenly the entire class is against that one child. It's disgusting and I don't think any one kid should be left out of a celebration that is supposed to bring them joy simply because kids can be jerks.

Perhaps I can be swayed to understand your argument for the birthday party. I won't change my opinion of it, but I do see where you are coming from. However, I am steadfast, at least, in my opinion of the holiday cards. If you're going to give one to one kid, each kid should receive one. Such a happy occasion should not be made depressive for a young child. No matter what the reason.

The holiday cards thing I get, I guess, because I've gone to school in the past and gotten class lists to make sure we've had enough cards to make sure everyone in class got one and no-one accidentally got forgotten. Most of the kids seems to hand them out to everyone, from what I can tell.
I wonder how much of the whole popular kid turns the rest of the class against a certain child has to do with the upbringing of the children in question. Our middle child is one of the 'It' kids, and she's always been made aware that it isn't enough to be popular, you should also be nice to everyone. Even if you don't like them, it doesn't hurt you to be pleasant.
All our kids have also been taught that peer pressure is not an acceptable excuse for anything either. I've been told I'm harsh on that score, but I just figure I wasn't one of the 'popular' group at school, and if I could manage to not do things specifically because someone said I should and it would make them like me more, I wont put up with it as a reason from anyone else.

 

[Katzpur]

Is this a good idea--the concept being that by not excluding anyone--no-one ends up with hurt feelings or low self-esteem. Or does it actually end up creating a sense of entitlement--no matter how well I did nor didn't do the job I still get a prize? This goes along a bit with a story I read about several months back, that had to do with eliminating assigning grades in schools. Are we doing our children any favors by not preparing them for the real world?

I think it's a great idea -- at least in terms of the birthday parties and valentines. Of course some kids are going to excel acedemically or in sports or some other area, I think it's important that their skills be recognized. But in terms of social activities that have nothing whatsoever to do with academics, and can result in one or two kids out of an entire class being left out, I think that rules prohibiting this kind of exclusionary behavior are very worthwhile.

Another thing I think is wrong is for the teacher to pick two team captains for a team sport and have them alternate picking the members of their teams. The last two kids standing are just humilitated and it's always the same two.

 

[Circle_One]

See, I was a bit more hard to define when I was in school. I didn't fit into a clique. I guess I just had a "me" clique. I was friends with who I wanted and could never care less what anyone thought. This made the "it" kids want to be friends with me, mainly, because they couldn't be. I refused to be friends with anyone who treated anyone else poorly. So basically because, instead of vying for their attention, I was turning myself and those who followed me, against the "it" kids of my school, and this made them want me in their clique even more.

I deliberately made friends with those that other people shunned because I could imagine how much it would suck to be shunned, and this made people who wanted to be MY friends, try to be friends with these kids that the "it" kids ostricized. It was quite the interesting little circle I had going on, hahaha.

But I brought Justyce up the same way. He knows to be nice to everyone, no matter what and has been in a few fights in school for standing up for kids that a group of popular kids were tormenting.

School, especially elementary (meaning, it's a start of a new phase in life, making new friends, etc), is a hard time for kids in life and I always thought the process of making it more horrid and more hard for some kids, by others, quite despicable. Which is why I believe in the things previously mentioned in the OP.