Is there anything wrong with prostitution?

[Revoltingest]

There's a difference between supporting prostitution, and not wanting to outlaw it.
I don't seek to outlaw all the stuff I don't support.

That post entitles you to a free LIBERTARIAN pocket protector.

 

[Willamena]

Even such sad men need love.
Who are you to deny a girl a job, & a guy a little heaven, eh?
You think it's better to throw one or both of'm in jail?
Too many rot in prison already.

Sex =/= love

 

[FearGod]

Sure. It's about time she got a real job.

Real job better than none

 

[dust1n]

But all these problems exist in society anyway.

isn't this just a case of throwing the baby out with the bath?

The problems don't exist on the same scale or formation as they do within prostitution.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sex =/= love

True....but sex will do in a pinch.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problems don't exist on the same scale or formation as they do within prostitution.

The biggest problem with prostitution is government prohibition & persecution.
Get them out of the business, & it will become like a trip to the dentist.
Scratch that last analogy. More like a trip to the barber....but a better looking barber than I have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To quote the late George Carlin: "Selling is legal. ******* is legal. So why is it illegal to sell *******?" It also doesn't make any sense that you can use something like Craigslist to find a hookup, legally, but the sex is charged for it becomes illegal.
Prostitution should be legal, is then it can be regulated to mandate frequent screenings for infections of workers and clients, and it would be taking money away from some criminals who do exploit sex-workers. And of course it must be mentioned there are indeed male-prostitutes, and most of their clients are men.
But really if it's something someone enjoys doing, and someone is willing to pay for it, if no one is being harmed and it is a consensual agreement, then why should it be illegal?

and of course, since when does criminalising something reduce its demand?

It doesn't. If anything, some studies suggest it may increase behaviors and demands.

The issue is one of human rights and human decency. Exploitation, rape and abuse is not acceptable.

Of course sex-slavery is worth combating. But there is a world of difference between being abducted, drugged and being made to be addicted to drugs, being beaten, threatened, tortured, and forced to have sex with paying customers, and doing it because it's something you do on your own free-will.

A secret hope that women want to sell their bodies to sad men who are incapable of respect for women?

But you have to consider that some prostitutes (typically women) can make hundreds, sometimes even thousands of dollars in one night. For some, it's an income that they cannot get from other jobs, and it's something they don't mind or even enjoy doing. Some women claim to even feel empowered by it.

May i have few questions to be answered by the supporters of prostitution.

1 - Would you be glad if your mother is working as prostitute.
2 - will you accept your sister to work as prostitute.
3 - Do you accept yourself to pay money and sleep with a prostitute.
4 - Would you accept to marry a prostitute.
5 - if you have a daughter,will you be glad that she wanted to work as prostitute.

1. I wouldn't be glad, but I wouldn't be upset about it either.
2. My sister is already promiscuous enough to be one. She might as well start charging.
3. No, but I would have to become extremely desperate to even consider paying for sex. But I have slept with someone who is a prostitute before.
4. If it was someone I was considering marrying, then that person being a prostitute is already something I already accepted, as long as protection was being used each and every time. If it wasn't be used, then I wouldn't consider marriage as I wouldn't put myself in a higher-risk of catching an infection.
5.If that is what she wanted to do then why worry? After all there are many professions and jobs that are far more dangerous, degrading, and harmful. I would be far more disappointed and upset if her job was to design weapons and devices that exist solely to hurt and kill people.
And another question, why the emphasis on female prostitutes? Sure there probably are more female prostitutes than males, but nevertheless they are out there.

 

[dust1n]

The biggest problem with prostitution is government prohibition & persecution.
Get them out of the business, & it will become like a trip to the dentist.
Scratch that last analogy. More like a trip to the barber....but a better looking barber than I have.

I'd agree with you persecution, as the majority persecutions fail to make anything better of a criminal anyways.

I get the point that legalization and regulation could effectively make businesses that engage in prostitution safer. I doubt it will eradicate the problems you see within prostitution, such as health concerns, sexual violence, extortion, etc...

For example, take STD's. Is it practical for every 'customer' to bring an updated list of STD checks? Is there an in-house doctor who must run these things? If the mechanism fails, how do you place liability? Wouldn't the creation of stringent regulations such as these just create yet another black market of prostitution? What about sex trafficking? Is it okay for a group of known criminals to extort foreigners into moving into sex houses within the country? What would legalization do to help or stop exploitation of child sex slaves?

I doubt very seriously that prostitution would ever be like anything going to a dentist of a barber entails, and I think such a thought is borderline delusional.

 

[McBell]

May i have few questions to be answered by the supporters of prostitution.

1 - Would you be glad if your mother is working as prostitute.
2 - will you accept your sister to work as prostitute.
3 - Do you accept yourself to pay money and sleep with a prostitute.
4 - Would you accept to marry a prostitute.
5 - if you have a daughter,will you be glad that she wanted to work as prostitute.

Look to yourself,so you can wish to others,what you wish to yourself and for your family.

Based in your answers,i will post my reply if prostituation is good or bad as a job.

interesting how you would base your reply on the answers to a series of appeal to emotion questions.

Makes a person wonder if your reply will be just as fallacious...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For example, take STD's. Is it practical for every 'customer' to bring an updated list of STD checks?

I don't think it is. A business could offer screenings at their own facility, and require a membership type of thing to hire a prostitute, and make a part of membership mandatory screenings for infections, as well as a requirement to use protection.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd agree with you persecution, as the majority persecutions fail to make anything better of a criminal anyways.
I get the point that legalization and regulation could effectively make businesses that engage in prostitution safer. I doubt it will eradicate the problems you see within prostitution, such as health concerns, sexual violence, extortion, etc...

Problems are never eliminated. Consider trash hauling....it's rife with corruption
& extortion now that organized crime is involved, but who would ban it?

For example, take STD's. Is it practical for every 'customer' to bring an updated list of STD checks? Is there an in-house doctor who must run these things? If the mechanism fails, how do you place liability? Wouldn't the creation of stringent regulations such as these just create yet another black market of prostitution?

There's stringent regulation of building contractors, so an underground market exists. Yet we don't ban home remodeling.

What about sex trafficking? Is it okay for a group of known criminals to extort foreigners into moving into sex houses within the country? What would legalization do to help or stop exploitation of child sex slaves?

I don't believe that sex trafficking would get worse. If anything, it would free up the labor market & make the illegal aspects less profitable.

I doubt very seriously that prostitution would ever be like anything going to a dentist of a barber entails, and I think such a thought is borderline delusional.

Oh, geeze.....my humor is lost. I still refuse to use those crutches called emoticons.

 

[GodlessAtheist]

To me it seems strange that prostitution is effectively outlawed in many Western nations/areas.

It appears as if OT biblical morality has crept into the supposedly secular legal system.

What possible reasons can there still be for outlawing consensual prostitution?

If the person wants to sell their body and is comfortable with being damned for all of eternity, then why not? I'm sure Jesus's arm got tired sometimes, the Bible just left that out of the story to make it more friendly for all of the 10 people who've read it.

 

[dust1n]

Problems are never eliminated. Consider trash hauling....it's rife with corruption & extortion now that organized crime is involved, but who would ban it?

But I'm not aware of any empirical evidence that would suggest that corruption & extortion would be seriously diminished in those fields.

There's stringent regulation of building contractors, so an underground market exists. Yet we don't ban home remodeling.

It seems like you are much more likely to mess up a structure during building than remodeling the aspect. You won't **** up the foundation, likely. And if you did remodel, did something wrong, it was inspected, you would have to have the problem fix or the state might make you leave the property.

Also, my problem of health is not an isolated incident. It only takes one customer with newly accumulated HIV to have effectively given it to a prostitute. So who is liable? How do you know who did it? What about when the prostitute keeps taking clients? How many people would contract HIV before it was found out the prostitute had HIV? The implications of these questions are a little bit more complicated than a poorly built house or business that might crumble and kill a small number of people.

I don't believe that sex trafficking would get worse. If anything, it would free up the labor market & make the illegal aspects less profitable.

Assuming the number of prostitutes increased, which is unlikely. Also assuming

Oh, geeze.....my humor is lost. I still refuse to use those crutches called emoticons.

I wasn't being humorous. It is somewhat dangerous to think that prostitution would simply be as easy and healthy and ok as going to the dentist will be, and then legalizing it on that assumption.


Consider...

"The brothels in Nevada's rural counties have been criticized by journalists, sex worker activists, feminists, social and religious conservatives and politicians.

Columnist Bob Herbert wrote "A grotesque exercise in the dehumanization of women is carried out routinely at Sheri's Ranch, a legal brothel about an hour’s ride outside of Vegas. There the women have to respond like Pavlov’s dog to an electronic bell that might ring at any hour of the day or night. At the sound of the bell, the prostitutes have five minutes to get to an assembly area where they line up, virtually naked, and submit to a humiliating inspection by any prospective customer who has happened to drop by".[32]

The working conditions from these brothels have also been criticized by many.[who?] During the 1970s and early 1980s, several towns had enacted rules prohibiting local brothel prostitutes from frequenting local bars or casinos or associating with local men outside of work. After a lawsuit was filed in 1984, these regulations had to be abandoned, but as a result of collaboration between sheriffs and brothel owners, they remain in effect unofficially. For instance, most brothels do not allow the prostitutes to leave the premises during their work shifts of several days to several weeks.[5]

In 2009, an article was published in the Guardian, in which it was written that some brothels "impose some extraordinary restrictions on commercial sex workers" in order to "separate sex workers from the local community": some places forbid prostitutes to leave the brothels for extended periods of time, while other jurisdictions require the prostitutes to leave the county when they are not working; some places do not allow the children of the women who work in the brothels to live in the same area; some brothel workers who have cars must register the vehicle with the local police, and workers are not permitted to leave the brothel after 5pm; in some counties registered sex workers are not allowed to have cars at all.[33]
...

Teri, a prostitute who has worked in a Nevada brothel (and who would like prostitution to be decriminalized), stated that "The brothel owners are worse than any pimp. They abuse and imprison women and are fully protected by the state".[37]

Another former prostitute who worked in four different brothels from Nevada attacked the system, saying that "Under this system, prostitutes give up too much autonomy, control and choice over their work and lives" and "While the brothel owners love this profitable solution, it can be exploitative and is unnecessary". She described how the women were subject to various exaggerated restrictions, including making it very difficult for them to refuse clients, not being allowed to read books while waiting for customers and having to deal with doctors who had a "patronizing or sexist attitude" (the brothels discouraged and in many cases forbade prostitutes to see doctors of their own choosing).[38]

In an article published in the Guardian in 2007, Julie Bindel wrote: "If you believe their PR, Nevada's legal brothels are safe, healthy – even fun – places in which to work. So why do so many prostitutes tell such horrific tales of abuse?"[39]

In her 2007 report, Prostitution and trafficking in Nevada: making the connections, Melissa Farley presents the results of numerous interviews with brothel owners and prostitutes, she states that most brothel prostitutes are controlled by outside pimps and that they suffer widespread abuse by brothel owners and customers.[40][41] Farley said that "What happens in legal brothels is sexual harassment, sexual exploitation and sometimes rape";[42] she also stated that more than 80% of the women she had interviewed told her they wanted to leave prostitution.[43]

Alexa Albert, a Harvard medical student who has conducted a public-health study inside one of Nevada's brothels, and authored Brothel: Mustang Ranch and Its Women,[44] wrote in her book that the brothel owners used to require the prostitutes to have outside pimps, because the pimps were thought to make the women work harder: "The involvement of pimps enabled brothel owners to leave discipline to men who wouldn't hesitate to keep their women in line."[45]

Bob Herbert also stated that many brothel prostitutes are controlled by outside pimps: "Despite the fiction that they are “independent contractors,” most so-called legal prostitutes have pimps — the state-sanctioned pimps who run the brothels and, in many cases, a second pimp who controls all other aspects of their lives (and takes the bulk of their legal earnings)."[46]

In 1998, some pimps from Oregon managed to place at least four underage girls in Nevada's legal brothels; they were arrested and convicted.[47][48]"


Prostitution in Nevada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Revoltingest]

But I'm not aware of any empirical evidence that would suggest that corruption & extortion would be seriously diminished in those fields.

What more evidence do you need than my opinion?
Anyway, the mere existence of problems such as corruption would not point towards making a profession illegal.

It seems like you are much more likely to mess up a structure during building than remodeling the aspect. You won't **** up the foundation, likely. And if you did remodel, did something wrong, it was inspected, you would have to have the problem fix or the state might make you leave the property.

You're making a good argument for regulation of the health of prostitutes. That works for me.

Also, my problem of health is not an isolated incident. It only takes one customer with newly accumulated HIV to have effectively given it to a prostitute. So who is liable? How do you know who did it? What about when the prostitute keeps taking clients? How many people would contract HIV before it was found out the prostitute had HIV? The implications of these questions are a little bit more complicated than a poorly built house or business that might crumble and kill a small number of people.

It appears to be dealt with in NV, where prostitution is legal.

Assuming the number of prostitutes increased, which is unlikely. Also assuming

I don't make that assumption....rather, I'd expect a shift in the market to more legal activity.

I wasn't being humorous. It is somewhat dangerous to think that prostitution would simply be as easy and healthy and ok as going to the dentist will be, and then legalizing it on that assumption.

I was making the joke. But employing a prostitute would become much more mainstream than it is now, with all the cops,
& entrapment, & arresting & fining & jailing & degradation. I see no good reason to do that to people. But you do?

Consider...
"The brothels in Nevada's rural counties have been criticized by journalists, sex worker activists, feminists, social and religious conservatives and politicians.

There's always someone who will criticize something. And feminists....pish posh....a bunch'o victimhood mongering prudes (as we all now know from that other thread).

Columnist Bob Herbert wrote "A grotesque exercise in the dehumanization of women is carried out routinely at Sheri's Ranch, a legal brothel about an hour’s ride outside of Vegas. There the women have to respond like Pavlov’s dog to an electronic bell that might ring at any hour of the day or night. At the sound of the bell, the prostitutes have five minutes to get to an assembly area where they line up, virtually naked, and submit to a humiliating inspection by any prospective customer who has happened to drop by".[32]
The working conditions from these brothels have also been criticized by many.[who?] During the 1970s and early 1980s, several towns had enacted rules prohibiting local brothel prostitutes from frequenting local bars or casinos or associating with local men outside of work. After a lawsuit was filed in 1984, these regulations had to be abandoned, but as a result of collaboration between sheriffs and brothel owners, they remain in effect unofficially. For instance, most brothels do not allow the prostitutes to leave the premises during their work shifts of several days to several weeks.[5]
In 2009, an article was published in the Guardian, in which it was written that some brothels "impose some extraordinary restrictions on commercial sex workers" in order to "separate sex workers from the local community": some places forbid prostitutes to leave the brothels for extended periods of time, while other jurisdictions require the prostitutes to leave the county when they are not working; some places do not allow the children of the women who work in the brothels to live in the same area; some brothel workers who have cars must register the vehicle with the local police, and workers are not permitted to leave the brothel after 5pm; in some counties registered sex workers are not allowed to have cars at all.[33]
...
Teri, a prostitute who has worked in a Nevada brothel (and who would like prostitution to be decriminalized), stated that "The brothel owners are worse than any pimp. They abuse and imprison women and are fully protected by the state".[37]
Another former prostitute who worked in four different brothels from Nevada attacked the system, saying that "Under this system, prostitutes give up too much autonomy, control and choice over their work and lives" and "While the brothel owners love this profitable solution, it can be exploitative and is unnecessary". She described how the women were subject to various exaggerated restrictions, including making it very difficult for them to refuse clients, not being allowed to read books while waiting for customers and having to deal with doctors who had a "patronizing or sexist attitude" (the brothels discouraged and in many cases forbade prostitutes to see doctors of their own choosing).[38]
In an article published in the Guardian in 2007, Julie Bindel wrote: "If you believe their PR, Nevada's legal brothels are safe, healthy – even fun – places in which to work. So why do so many prostitutes tell such horrific tales of abuse?"[39]
In her 2007 report, Prostitution and trafficking in Nevada: making the connections, Melissa Farley presents the results of numerous interviews with brothel owners and prostitutes, she states that most brothel prostitutes are controlled by outside pimps and that they suffer widespread abuse by brothel owners and customers.[40][41] Farley said that "What happens in legal brothels is sexual harassment, sexual exploitation and sometimes rape";[42] she also stated that more than 80% of the women she had interviewed told her they wanted to leave prostitution.[43]
Alexa Albert, a Harvard medical student who has conducted a public-health study inside one of Nevada's brothels, and authored Brothel: Mustang Ranch and Its Women,[44] wrote in her book that the brothel owners used to require the prostitutes to have outside pimps, because the pimps were thought to make the women work harder: "The involvement of pimps enabled brothel owners to leave discipline to men who wouldn't hesitate to keep their women in line."[45]
Bob Herbert also stated that many brothel prostitutes are controlled by outside pimps: "Despite the fiction that they are “independent contractors,” most so-called legal prostitutes have pimps — the state-sanctioned pimps who run the brothels and, in many cases, a second pimp who controls all other aspects of their lives (and takes the bulk of their legal earnings)."[46]
In 1998, some pimps from Oregon managed to place at least four underage girls in Nevada's legal brothels; they were arrested and convicted.[47][48]"
Prostitution in Nevada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have a simple idea.
Women who don't want to work as a chippie should find other work,
& men who don't want to be a john shouldn't patronize brothels.
It's the libertarian solution.

 

[dust1n]

What more evidence do you need than my opinion?
Anyway, the mere existence of problems such as corruption would not point towards making a profession illegal.

But the corruption in other faculties don't have the same effects as corruption in prostitution. Corruption in prostitution can lead to enslavement. The same can't really be said for insurance fraud, or organized crime infiltration waste management.

You're making a good argument for regulation of the health of prostitutes. That works for me.

It appears to be dealt with in NV, where prostitution is legal.

But it isn't. As stated, the 'health regulations' in those places only serve the customers, not the prostitutes. The customers aren't screened.

I don't make that assumption....rather, I'd expect a shift in the market to more legal activity.

Wait, you'd expect a shift of sex workers to other fields? Did I understand that right?

I was making the joke. But employing a prostitute would become much more mainstream than it is now, with all the cops,
& entrapment, & arresting & fining & jailing & degradation. I see no good reason to do that to people. But you do?

No, but there is a big difference between decriminalization and legalization.

There's always someone who will criticize something. And feminists....pish posh....a bunch'o victimhood mongering prudes (as we all now know from that other thread).

I have a simple idea.
Women who don't want to work as a chippie should find other work,
& men who don't want to be a john shouldn't patronize brothels.
It's the libertarian solution.

But it is never that simple. If %80 of the sex workforce interviewed wants to leave the position, but hasn't, then we might assume something is preventing them from doing so... economic reasons, perhaps, or extortion.

 

[McBell]

But it is never that simple. If %80 of the sex workforce interviewed wants to leave the position, but hasn't, then we might assume something is preventing them from doing so... economic reasons, perhaps, or extortion.

If 80% of {insert workforce here} interviewed wants to leave the position, but hasn't....


How is it any different with the sex workforce?

 

[dust1n]

If 80% of {insert workforce here} interviewed wants to leave the position, but hasn't....


How is it any different with the sex workforce?

I'm not aware of another field where %80 wants to leave the workforce but hasn't. But if there was, I would be somewhat suspicious that there are reasons that that %80 wants to leave but are still there.

 

[McBell]

I'm not aware of another field where %80 wants to leave the workforce but hasn't. But if there was, I would be somewhat suspicious that there are reasons that that %80 wants to leave but are still there.

I am not aware that 80% want to leave the sex workforce....

Got a reliable source?

 

[Revoltingest]

But the corruption in other faculties don't have the same effects as corruption in prostitution. Corruption in prostitution can lead to enslavement. The same can't really be said for insurance fraud, or organized crime infiltration waste management.

But corruption in insurance fraud can lead to arson & murder.
Therefore, we must ban insurance! Really?

But it isn't. As stated, the 'health regulations' in those places only serve the customers, not the prostitutes. The customers aren't screened.

The companions screen the customers. If you want to argue for more stringent standards, I'll listen. But to make a profession
illegal because you can dream up a parade of horribles tells me that you haven't stated your real reason for opposing prostitution.
What is it about doinking for dollars that most bothers you?

Wait, you'd expect a shift of sex workers to other fields? Did I understand that right?

No. I'd expect that if prostitution were legalized, there would be less skulking illegal activity, & more above board legal activity.
So more workers in the field would have more conventional employer & employee & customer relationships.

No, but there is a big difference between decriminalization and legalization.

Meh....

But it is never that simple. If %80 of the sex workforce interviewed wants to leave the position, but hasn't, then we might assume something is preventing them from doing so... economic reasons, perhaps, or extortion.

It could be that simple, if gov't stopped criminalizing consensual behavior between adults. It looks like only your hypothetical scenario
is problematic. You could argue that anything should be illegal if you make up a wild enuf worst case scenario. This just doesn't hold water.
I see no reason to have gov't intervene to toss more people in the pokey just for doing what comes naturally. Are you one of those moralistic
law & order types who is out to save us from sin? I happen to like sin. Those who don't like sin should just avoid it.

 

[dust1n]

Something to think about...

"The least satisfying dozen jobs are mostly low-skill, manual and service
occupations, especially involving customer service and food/beverage preparation and
serving. Roofers have the least job satisfaction with only 25.3% very satisfied. Second
comes the first of several food and beverage occupations, waiters and servers, with 27.0%
very satisfied. Other food/drink occupations near the bottom include bartenders in 4th
place with 26.3% very satisfied, food preparers at 9th with 23.6% very satisfied, and
butchers and meat cutters in 11th position with 31.8% very satisfied. Third from the
bottom is another manual trade, laborers outside of construction, with 21.4% very
satisfied. In fifth and sixth position are handpackers/packagers with 23.7% very satisfied
and freight, stock, and material handlers with 23.9% very satisfied. Next in 7th and 8th
place are apparel clothing salepersons and cashiers with respectively 23.9% and 25.0%
very satisfied. At 10th place are expediters which includes customer service clerks and
complaint desk clerks with 37.0% very satisfied.4 In 12th position are furniture/home
furnishing salespersons with 25.2% very satisfied."

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/07/pdf/070417.jobs.pdf

If roofers (%74.3) are not very satisfied with their job, I would react very much or be surprised. If roofers (%80) said they wanted to leave roofing, but hadn't, I would be inclined to think there are reasons for such, wouldn't you?