Tumah
Veteran Member
Yes, it was given to the Jews when we were in Egypt. The nation did it for two years and then stopped because the subsequent generation were all uncircumcised and by law could not bring the sacrifice.
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Is the angel of death one week away?
- Thread starter 2ndpillar
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I predict, next week, nothing is going to happen and the world will carry on like it has for billions of years.
In the mean time, I shall enjoy watching a Christian being embarrassed by trying to insist the Jews here somehow don't understand their own religion as well as those who appropriated it.
In the mean time, I shall enjoy watching a Christian being embarrassed by trying to insist the Jews here somehow don't understand their own religion as well as those who appropriated it.
The "circumcised men" of Israel didn't die for 40 years. It was only the children who could not "eat from it". (Ex 12:48) As for the men being under a death sentence, "everyone shall die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). Do you know someone who has not died after their 120 years (Gen 6:3)?
How could all the men who didn't die for 40 years become physically uncircumcised in 2 years? Did Moses become uncircumcised?
Tumah
Veteran Member
See Num. 14:21-31.
I am sure some millennial type 31 year old musician in central Europe thought the same previous to WWI & WWII. And what "Christian" are you referring too? As for the world carrying on, well the leader of the millennials, Al Core, predicted, in his 1970 earth day, that civilization would end in 15-30 years. https://barbwire.com/2016/02/13/al-gores-10-global-warming-predictions-10-years-later/
You seem to be arguing against yourself. Those 20 years or younger are except, and they would all have been circumcised. (Num 14:29)
Tumah
Veteran Member
They would have, but their children would not have been. See Ex. 12:48. The entire household has to be circumcised in order to bring the sacrifice.
That is not exactly what Ex 12:48 says. First of all, it is with respect to the "stranger", second of all, it is with respect to "no uncircumcised person may eat of it". What it doesn't say is "the entire household has to be circumcised in order to bring the sacrifice". And how would this apply to the household of Moses, as his son was circumcised? And according to Ex 13:5, like the waving of the sheaves, the beginning point was to begin after 40 years when "the LORD brings you to the land of the Canaanite".
As for the waving of the sheaf/sheath (Lev 23:11) and Joshua, apparently upon entering the promised land, circumcised the children from the wilderness, and waved their foreskins before the LORD before offering the Passover lamb. (Joshua 5:7-11) Apparently, the harvest God is looking for is the harvest of souls, and souls with circumcised hearts, which apparently awaits for a future date. (Ez 36:24-26 & Ez 37:24 & Jer 31:31-34).
Lev 23:10 " Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. 11He shall wave the sheaf before the LORD for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12'Now on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the LORD.…
New American Standard Bible Ex 12:48
"But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.
Joshua 5:7 Their children whom He raised up in their place, Joshua circumcised; for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them along the way.
8Now when they had finished circumcising all the nation, they remained in their places in the camp until they were healed. 9Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Today I have rolled away the reproach of Egypt from you.” So the name of that place is called Gilgal to this day.
10While the sons of Israel camped at Gilgal they observed the Passover on the evening of the fourteenth day of the month on the desert plains of Jericho. 11On the day after the Passover, on that very day, they ate some of the produce of the land, unleavened cakes and parched grain.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
You are the non-Jewish one debating a Biblical perspective with a Jewish member concerning the Jewish religion, are you not?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yes, it does say this with respect to the "stranger". And the very next verse says that the Law should be the same for the "stranger" and the "homeborn".
And what it says for the stranger, is that when a stranger lives with us, he has to first circumcise all of his males (comp. Gen. 17:10, 23) and then he can bring the Passover sacrifice.
Moses had two sons, not one. And while they were circumcised, apparently their own children were not. This would invalidate them from bringing the sacrifice.
Being "non-Jewish" does not make one a "Christian". Heaven forbid. That would make Hindus, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddhist, among many others as being "Christian". The debate is not about the "Jewish religion" but about Scripture, as in "Scriptural Debates".
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
True, but Hindus, Agnostics, Muslims, and Buddhists don't really tend to use the Bible to base a debate.
And that's where it gets amusing for me. The Scripture you are debating, the "first part" is Jewish, and Christians did appropriate for themselves, they reinvented many ideas and concepts because they don't understand them as Jews do. So, you get situations where a Christian will debate a Jew and insist the Jew has the OT wrong, because the Jewish perspective and understanding of the Tanakh does not fit that well with the Christian interpretation of it.
The point is mute if per Ex 13:5 the ordinance is to start "when the LORD brings you to the land of the Caananite".
As Jacob had 12 sons, and if Ephraim is not clean, would that make all Judah unclean? If Ephraim remains uncircumcised among the nations (Ez 36:22-24), would that make Judah, as a son of Israel, unfit to "bring the Passover sacrifice"? As the Levites today are unclean (Malachi 3:3), how can they make sacrifice today?
I will admit, "bring the Passover sacrifice" is new terminology for me. My version reads "eat"
Malachi 3…2"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3"He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. 4"Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.…
If Jews agreed with each other, then you wouldn't have the Sadducees debating the Pharisees. As per your misguided history lesson, it was a Jew who questioned the hypocrisy of the Sadducees and Pharisees, who supported the Law and the testimonies, and who got the ball rolling. It was a so called Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul, a Roman citizen, whose lord was Caesar, who created your "Christianity", which basically made the "old" "obsolete". On the other hand, Paul had to use the OT in his perverted manner, to provide a foundation, which he then nailed to a cross, once he had his minions deceived. Now for Jews in general, they are like "Christians" in general. They only know what they are told. The "lying scribes" (Jer 8:8) inform the Jews, and the lying Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul, informs the "Christians". That way, according to Daniel 12:10, none have any understanding.