Is suicide ever justified?

[apostle_ndr]

This is an old question, and was probably asked time and time again on this forum.

I'm asking this classic question on morality because there are so many people of different faiths and belief systems here. I would love to here the various opinions on whether or not suicide is ever justified. If not, why? If yes, when and why?

 

[jonny]

This is an old question, and was probably asked time and time again on this forum.

I'm asking this classic question on morality because there are so many people of different faiths and belief systems here. I would love to here the various opinions on whether or not suicide is ever justified. If not, why? If yes, when and why?

My initial reaction is no, but I support doctor assisted suicide, so I guess there is times when I see it as justified.

 

[Chimowowo]

I really don't have a definite answer. I think anyone who lumps it all into a single solid reply really needs to reevaluate that outlook.

I would say for almost every instance suicide is wrong. Because most of the time if it's just someone depressed about their way of life, or just unhappy...they just need to keep going because life is a roller coaster and things will get better.
But there are other occasions.

Like Jonny said, there is doctor assisted. I'm on the fence about this. This isn't a clear cut case and needs to be examined carefully. If this is what you are interested in I will post again later with my POV.

But there is also kamakazi's and suicide's for a greater good.
Look at the Japanese WWII pilots. Now they may have lost the war, but what if your suicide can help a greater cause. Isn't the benefit of millions of others worth your sacrifice. In this instance I think it's okay. Maybe misguided, but if the cause is strong enough then do it. Suicide missions are along with this. Sometimes there is something that really needed to be done and you know you will die, but you need to do it anyways.
As you can probably tell I'm one of those people that thinks a few sacrifices and death's are sometimes needed to preserve the way of life, and/or other peoples lives themselves.

So I won't say suicide itself is wrong. You have to look at the reasons behind it to decide if it's alright.

 

[Aqualung]

So I won't say suicide itself is wrong. You have to look at the reasons behind it to decide if it's alright.

Very true. good post.

 

[Ardent Listener]

I hope I'm not going to far off topic, but what about a case when someone gives up his or her life so that others may live or a victory in war won? Is that a form of suicide?

 

[Chimowowo]

I hope I'm not going to far off topic, but what about a case when someone gives up his or her life so that others may live or a victory in war won? Is that a form of suicide?

By my definition it is. For me suicide isn't ending your own life directly, but can also be by making a choice that will knowingly result in your own death within the near future, for whatever reason.

 

[facetiousme]

By my definition it is. For me suicide isn't ending your own life directly, but can also be by making a choice that will knowingly result in your own death within the near future, for whatever reason.

And by that definition you will find the greatest example of that sort of suicide in the Bible.

 

[Chimowowo]

And by that definition you will find the greatest example of that sort of suicide in the Bible.

Took me a while to figure this out. You make a great point for me to bring up next time a christian says that all suicide is wrong. I don't like people putting everything into black and white. Should be fun since I'm going on a church retreat in about 3 weeks, though I doubt there will be any real debating there. Just preaching.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am not sure on this issue. I believe suicide greatly interferes with your Karma, but someone should have the right to end thier own life.

Because most of the time if it's just someone depressed about their way of life, or just unhappy...they just need to keep going because life is a roller coaster and things will get better.

Some people kill themeselves because there lives are very bad. A couple of years ago, a girl around Indianapolis hung herself because she had no friends and was constantly picked on. I have considered suicide myself several times, and the night I was going to end all my pain and suffering, my athame came up missing. My life was basically sumed up as, all my friends moved out of state, no one cared about me, and everyday of my life was bad.
My life has gotten abit better (the only way it could go). The new Disturbed album is great, and Im now a godfather to a baby boy I haven't met yet. And I now have an optimistic view on the future. I think discussion is a good treatment for those with suicidal tendacies.

 

[Darkdale]

This is an old question, and was probably asked time and time again on this forum.

I'm asking this classic question on morality because there are so many people of different faiths and belief systems here. I would love to here the various opinions on whether or not suicide is ever justified. If not, why? If yes, when and why?

I have no problem with suicide. Seems like a personal choice to me.

 

[retrorich]

Suicide is ALWAYS justified. If one wishes to end one's life, it is no one else's business.

FREE DR. KAVORKIAN!

 

[apostle_ndr]

This is from experience and I'm not making an assumption about any one religion.
Especially Christianity, as there are apparently two sides of the fence no matter where you go.

When I was in the hospital, a Christian told me that my life was not mine to take. God has a plan for me, he said.

Why do some Christians say this, and others believe in justified suicide as circumstancial?

Can any one of any religion know when the circumstances can justify suicide? The degree of pain one would have to be in to warrant euthanasia, is there a measurable area? Do you have to suffer so much before it's alright?

I'm guilty of this as well, believing that justified suicide is circumstancial. According to my own moral code, I can end my life out of intense pain (does intense depression count as intense pain? why/why not?) or to save someone else (you'd be selfish not to)..

Is harakiri (seppuku) justified? Cutting out your bowels to save your honor?

Undefined area:
Say I commit suicide by pushing a young child out of the way of a truck. Justified?
What if I commit suicide to save a cat. Justified? Why not? What if it's MY cat?
Say I commit suicide by saving a culturally cherished totem pole.. just?
How about a totem pole made in Taiwan that cost $10.00?

OF course, the circumstances are fuzzy and change from person to person! Depending on cultural/personal values and norms. But, in the case of the aforementioned Christian, he has a clearly defined rule.

Everything is in the hands of God. He'll end your suffering when he sees fit.

I hope to hear from Christians on both sides. Those for and against circumstancial suicide. (Because if everyone follows their own rules, we wouldn't have religion or government. Suicide is just a small facet of moral fabric.)

I'll ask other questions of morality in other threads. Varying opinions are fascinating.

 

[Chimowowo]

I think discussion is a good treatment for those with suicidal tendacies.

So true. I doubt it's much a problem with the people on this board, but all to often people underestimate the power of conversation. Even with complete strangers.

 

[jewscout]

oy! not another suicide thread

euthenasia i have no problem with, i find nothing wrong with dying with some dignity especially if one is suffering painfully due to a disease

aside from that, no i do not condone suicide.

 

[Kowalski]

Surely it is the choice of the individual. Suicide is justifiable, and I am not going to judge anybody on this subject. I just wish more people could be helped by intervention before they take the final step into the abyss.

K

 

[michel]

Suicide is ALWAYS justified. If one wishes to end one's life, it is no one else's business.

FREE DR. KAVORKIAN!

I agree, as you know, Rich.
[PART QUOTE=apostle_ndr]......................"This is from experience and I'm not making an assumption about any one religion.
Especially Christianity, as there are apparently two sides of the fence no matter where you go.
When I was in the hospital, a Christian told me that my life was not mine to take. God has a plan for me, he said."...................

[/PART QUOTE]

Well, I'm a Christian, but I believe that I should heve the right to end an awful life. I would reply to your Christian friend "And what if God's plan for me is to commit suicide ?"

Thjat's not the same as asking if suicide is justifiable; if it affects family members badly, then, no, reluctantly, it is not justifiable.

 

[shaft]

The problem I think with this particular moral question, with those with a belief, is that they think that life is a gift. The connotations around the word ‘gift’ suggest at the very least that it would be rude not to accept it. Life isn’t a gift, it is merely a situation and circumstance that we all find our selves in. That is it!
If life was truly a gift then the gift would be given to those that deserve it, if the giver had any sense of fairness at all.
This is clearly not the case. Evil can thrive and the innocent can perish.
As Christianity is a faith based around submission i.e. submission to mother nature, disease, illness, fate etc etc by extension it is also a submission to pain and Christianity would have you believe that it should be endured at all costs or god will not look favourably on you. So we have arrived at the question ‘what kind of god can this be?’
We say that ‘life isn’t fair’ but, it is important to accept that life (or physics) is indifferent to our lot. It is people that are unfair because they can identify the injustice and commonly re-address the balance.
It is one of the worst tortures to endure the site of a loved one (or even a pet) suffering needlessly with little hope of recovery and if we were fair and compassionate then we/society would do all it can to reduce the amount of suffering in existence. However, foggy archaic thinking reduces many helpless existences to nothing short of torture.
Can suicide (assisted or not) be justified. Of course it can. To do the humane thing in some instances should extend beyond pets and animals to humans, so can we conclude we are more compassionate towards other species only? I think we can.

 

[Flappycat]

There's no right or wrong to it. Unless it would cause hardship for others, I'd say it's purely neutral.

 

[jewscout]

There's no right or wrong to it. Unless it would cause hardship for others, I'd say it's purely neutral.

for anyone who has been to a suicide funeral the hardship to others is evident IMO

 

[shaft]

If I have a terminal disease which is causing me increasing pain and suffering I certainly wouldn't want to prolonge my suffering because of the loss that others would feel. Their only pain is the loss which they will eventually get over. My pain would be endless until death. I would expect those that are left behind with their health and lives to understand. If they don't then they are only thinking of themselves.
IMO every funeral is a hardship if the absence of that person causes a void in your life. Flappycat (odd name!) is right to a degree. There is no right or wrong. There is only that which in the long term gives the greatest overall advantage or the optimal gain. (and I dont mean individual gain i main 'sum total of') The gain in this case is the removal of a negative.