Is Saint Worship Necromancy?

[freeindeed78]

So God's not allowed to let a person hear two voices at once? Why not?

Why do we assume the foundation of the argument is why not? rather than Why?
Either way we presume to know the Mind of God, right?

This doesn't seem to me to be so much different than "gifts of the spirit" like interpretation of speaking in tongues, which the Bible says God gives to some people.

Only that this was not given as one of the gifts? And which is based on presumption rather than scripture. (or history if you don't like abiding by scripture alone) I've not found any accepted teachings from the disciples, or early church fathers condoning the method....and yes, I acknowledge i've not read them all.....

And just for argument's sake, say a saint could only hear one prayer at a time. How would this make the Catholic position wrong? You'd still have saints hearing prayers and passing them on to God.

Only if you are willing to accept that there is an imaginary line in which everyone offering up prayers to the saints must first take a #. Otherwise, you have thousands of prayers going up continuiously to often times the same saint....if he hears only one at a time then it would imply that many are not being heard? and therefore no intercession is being made? Right?

I'm still not seeing the conflict.

 

[freeindeed78]

That seems to me to be talking about the Second Coming. Why do you think it applies to Heaven now?

So right now there are tears, sorrow, pain in Heaven? I don't believe this scripture changes the promises of Heaven now or the new Heaven to come.

Say you see a friend - he looks sad. You ask him what's wrong. He says "nothing". What do you conclude?

- there's actually nothing wrong
- he's bothered by something but doesn't want to talk about it

Probably the second option, right? But going by his words alone, you'd have to pick the first option. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

If you know someone and watch him, you probably have ideas about what would make him happy even without him telling you. This is just part of being observant.

Even the most observant eyes can be fooled, when speaking of human nature or otherwise. Even your answer implies you have 1 of 2 conclusions, only after astute observation your left with making 50/50 shot of getting it right. Your answer also implies having some, if not an intimate knowledge of that person your watching in order to know what makes him happy. Even the best profilers would agree a basic understanding of that person is required.

You're moving the goalposts. Before, you argued that prayer to saints wouldn't give you the same benefits that asking loved ones to pray for you would give you: comfort from another actual person. Fine if you think that, but this implies the thing you're seeking isn't prayer at all.

In my opinion it would not, not clear on where I moved the goalposts? My stance was always prayer of my friends/loved ones/living.....I'm not sure what I said that implied I changed my mind on that?

You want to be comforted, so you ask for a prayer. Why not just ask for comfort?

Again, for me Prayer = Comfort
True comfort, meaning a peace that suprpasses all understanding comes from Christ and Christ alone. IMO

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

A question born from honest curiosity. I am not nor have I ever been a member of the Catholic Church and this question has always intrigued me as to how prayer to the saints can be explained as anything but speaking to the dead?

Because to Christians, Christ is not a dead God, but a living God and all those who die in Christ are alive with him as well. They aren't dead. Their bodies are asleep in the Lord.

 

[Mister Emu]

A question born from honest curiosity. I am not nor have I ever been a member of the Catholic Church and this question has always intrigued me as to how prayer to the saints can be explained as anything but speaking to the dead?

Simply, the Church Triumphant is not dead. "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living..."

The saints are alive in Christ, and they, just as we do, pray for their brothers and sisters. Just as we, they want their brothers and sisters to ask them to pray.

 

[LoTrobador]

I'm not sure the Low Church Anglicans still exist, LOL. Seriously though, the majority of Anglicans are high church, and the only low church Anglicans I know are on the verge of splitting from the Anglican Communion over homosexuality.

I think I've heard of churches, parishes or communities that do consider themselves Low Church / Evangelical / Protestant (and don't necessarily consider leaving the Anglican Communion), so - while they might be few in numbers - I don't think that this tradition almost no longer exists within the AC.